Interesting Golok for translation

[Atlantia]

An interesting Golok, the poor finish on the blade in stark contrast to the amount of time they spent adding the long inscription on both sides.
The date puzzled me initially as it looked like a mix of arabic and western numerals, but a closer look seems to show that it's 1365 Hegira, which would be 1945 gregorian.
If someone could please have a look at the rest of the inscription. It's clearly done with some care.

Thanks
Gene

[Atlantia]

Inscription side 1.
top right joins to bottom left:

[Atlantia]

inscription side 2.
Top right joins to bottom left:

[A.alnakkas]

Beautiful! Quranic verses on most (I think)

The first picture (its on reverse)

Its: Nasrun min allah wa fat'hun kareeb, Wa bashir al mu'mineen. Wa ma ramait ith ramait laken allah rama Which means : Close victory from God and close conquest, so give glad tidings to the believers. (then it moves to another quranic verse) If you have shot your bow, it is not you who have shot, but it is God.

Bottom inscription makes no sense to me except for the repeated "Ha Mim" which are 2 letters common in Quran that no one understands.

Will try to translate the other photo's soonish.


Alnakkas

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Beautiful! Quranic verses on most (I think)

The first picture (its on reverse)

Its: Nasrun min allah wa fat'hun kareeb, Wa bashir al mu'mineen. Wa ma ramait ith ramait laken allah rama Which means : Close victory from God and close conquest, so give glad tidings to the believers. (then it moves to another quranic verse) If you have shot your bow, it is not you who have shot, but it is God.

Bottom inscription makes no sense to me except for the repeated "Ha Mim" which are 2 letters common in Quran that no one understands.

Will try to translate the other photo's soonish.


Alnakkas

FANTASTIC!
Thanks Abdullatif.
If the date is 1945, could it be refering to the war do you think?
Best
Gene

[Amuk Murugul]

Hullo Gene,

This golok was made in a hurry. It is Soenda, from Priangan, Soemedang Regency. Many were made during Indonesia's struggle for independence. They were carried by Sajiddin (fighters prepared to die). These fighters were totally 'undrugged', except perhaps with religious conviction. Whole companies were known to have perished by say, attacking a tank with nothing more lethal than sharpened bamboo spears.
Quite a piece of Soenda/indo history!

As for the 'Ha Mim', I'd venture to say that it most likely, notionally, represents a rejoinder from the 'assemblage' akin to the 'halleluyah' or 'amen' after statements by a preacher in a Gospel church.

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

Hullo Gene,

This golok was made in a hurry. It is Soenda, from Priangan, Soemedang Regency. Many were made during Indonesia's struggle for independence. They were carried by Sajiddin (fighters prepared to die). These fighters were totally 'undrugged', except perhaps with religious conviction. Whole companies were known to have perished by say, attacking a tank with nothing more lethal than sharpened bamboo spears.
Quite a piece of Soenda/indo history!

As for the 'Ha Mim', I'd venture to say that it most likely, notionally, represents a rejoinder from the 'assemblage' akin to the 'halleluyah' or 'amen' after statements by a preacher in a Gospel church.

Hi again Amuk.

Thank you so much for the background on this item.

That's really interesting, I have to admit that I know very little about how Indonesia gained her independance..

Your explanation makes perfect sense. I couldn't understand why such a careful and long inscription was put on such a 'basic' weapon.
Is it common to see long verses on these? Do you think the inscription from the other side of the blade is something more connected to the ideology of the political situation at that moment?

So the date of 1365 (1945) relates to the war for independance? I had just assumed it related to WW2.

Despite it's basic nature, would you regard it as an interesting (even desirable) item then?

Best
Gene

[Maurice]

This golok is older as the double one Gene.. ;-)

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Maurice

This golok is older as the double one Gene.. ;-)

Sorry buddy, I'm confused?

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Sorry buddy, I'm confused?

I meant to say that this golok is older as the double "silat" goloks in your other thread...

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Maurice

I meant to say that this golok is older as the double "silat" goloks in your other thread...

LOL, oh I see, 'older' as in older than new and younger than antique! LOL!!!
Yeah, thats fine with me

It's interesting to think that this Golok is also part of such a pivotal moment in it's countries history. I hope Abdullatif or someone will be able to tell me what the rest of the inscription says.

Best
Gene

[Amuk Murugul]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Hi again Amuk.

Thank you so much for the background on this item.

That's really interesting, I have to admit that I know very little about how Indonesia gained her independance..

Your explanation makes perfect sense. I couldn't understand why such a careful and long inscription was put on such a 'basic' weapon.
Is it common to see long verses on these? Do you think the inscription from the other side of the blade is something more connected to the ideology of the political situation at that moment?

So the date of 1365 (1945) relates to the war for independance? I had just assumed it related to WW2.

Despite it's basic nature, would you regard it as an interesting (even desirable) item then?

Best
Gene

Hullo AGAIN Gene!

We have to stop meeting like this. People may begin to talk. My head is spinning; I feel as if I'm playing 'musical chairs'.

Length of verse is secondary to content/context. These blades would generally have been blessed by a doekoen or imam, depending on belief.
Scrap political ideology.....indos were largely politically-ignorant at that stage. Most were uneducated/illiterate in the Occidental sense.

The indo movement for independence started about 1920, with the military defeats of Russia by Japan. The 'physical' side was about 1942-1945.
Declaration of independence was 1945.

It is DEFINITELY NOT WORTH COLLECTING! Send it to me immediately and I WILL dispose of it! I promise (touch wood)!

Best,

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

Hullo AGAIN Gene!

We have to stop meeting like this. People may begin to talk. My head is spinning; I feel as if I'm playing 'musical chairs'.

Length of verse is secondary to content/context. These blades would generally have been blessed by a doekoen or imam, depending on belief.
Scrap political ideology.....indos were largely politically-ignorant at that stage. Most were uneducated/illiterate in the Occidental sense.

The indo movement for independence started about 1920, with the military defeats of Russia by Japan. The 'physical' side was about 1942-1945.
Declaration of independence was 1945.

It is DEFINITELY NOT WORTH COLLECTING! Send it to me immediately and I WILL dispose of it! I promise (touch wood)!

Best,

LOL, thanks mate, I'll throw it in the trash immediately

[A.alnakkas]

Hey

The second picture, top inscription is a Quranic verse: Fa qute'ah dabir alqawm alatheen thalamu wa alhamdu lelah rab al alameen. In english it means: So the ruse (or scheme) of the people who have commited injustice is cut (or stopped, or subdued) and praise be to Allah, the lord of the worlds.

The bottom inscription: the first two words are unclear and the last few words could be a prayer. It says: Yakfeekuhum Allah wa huwa al Samee' al Aleem. In english it means: And Enough for you is Allah, the all hearer, the all knower.

I love this sword man, so much radiant history it has, you can almost feel it by looking! as if the one who wrote was extremely passionate.

[Atlantia]

Abdullatif!
Wonderful work. My sincere thanks for your help in this quest.

If I can, I want to piece the information together in one post to see what we've got, if you could have a look once I've done that and see if you agree with how I set it out, that would be great.

Best
Gene

[A.alnakkas]

Gene, You are most welcome

Sure I cant wait to read it, am very interested in this piece! though I have no clue about indonesian history

Am very interested now about how "ha mim" became a sort of hallelujah to indonesians. Perhaps it is time to study their history

[Atlantia]

So, combining the excellent works of Messrs Alnakkas and Murugal, we have the following:

This Golok was part of the movement and armed struggle for Indonesian Independance.
It is Soenda, from Priangan, Soemedang Regency. They were carried by Sajiddin (fighters prepared to die).

Having evaluated the translations of the blade inscriptions, I am going to assume that the correct 'order' would be the one that starts with the date, and ending with the repeated expression of assent and approval.

So, first side (top pair below):
"1365 ****unknown**** Yakfeekuhum Allah wa huwa al Samee' al Aleem Fa qute'ah dabir alqawm alatheen thalamu wa alhamdu lelah rab al alameen."

"1945 ****unknown**** And Enough for you is Allah, the all hearer, the all knower, So the ruse (or scheme) of the people who have commited injustice is cut (or stopped, or subdued) and praise be to Allah, the lord of the worlds."

And the Second side (bottom pair below):
"Nasrun min allah wa fat'hun kareeb, Wa bashir al mu'mineen. Wa ma ramait ith ramait laken allah rama ********unknown********* ha mim, ha mim, ha mim, ha mim, ha mim, ha mim, ha mim ***unknown***"

"Close victory from God and close conquest, so give glad tidings to the believers. If you have shot your bow, it is not you who have shot, but it is God. ********unknown******** Repeated invocation ***unknown***"

Pictures edited to read from right to left and top then bottom.

[Atlantia]

It seems to me that if we agree that it is 1945 the year of the beginning of the final struggle for independance and Indonesia's declaration of independence in that year leading to it's recognition by the Dutch in 1949, the choice of verse added to the date seems to suggest that this piece was part of that initial final movement and it's seeming enthusiasm as can be felt in the wording chosen here?

In short, it feels like it's saying to me: "it's 1945 year one of Indonesian Independance and there is no going back."
A declaration of intent but also of seeming expectation of victory (which as we know took another 4 years).

[Dom]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Bottom inscription makes no sense to me except for the repeated "Ha Mim" which are 2 letters common in Quran that no one understands.

Akhi Lotfi
as "khawaja" (foreigner) what you are mentioned "Ha Mim"
these words sound to me what Muslims, but also Jews, Christians are saying when the finished theirs prayers;
- Amin, Amen ?? "so be as God wills"
could you comment, specially if I'm going on some wrong tracks

tahyiati lakum

à +

Dom

[A.alnakkas]

Akhi Dom,

The letters Ha mim are derived from Quran, There are numerous letters in the Quran such as "Ha mim Sad" and many others that arent yet encrypted. Ha Mim is also a name of a Quranic Surah.

These are not to be mistaken with Ameen which has roots in all semitic languages.

This will explain more:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muqatta%27at

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

So, combining the excellent works of Messrs Alnakkas and Murugal, we have the following:

This Golok was part of the movement and armed struggle for Indonesian Independance.
It is Soenda, from Priangan, Soemedang Regency. They were carried by Sajiddin (fighters prepared to die).

Having evaluated the translations of the blade inscriptions, I am going to assume that the correct 'order' would be the one that starts with the date, and ending with the repeated expression of assent and approval.

So, first side (top pair below):
"1365 ****unknown**** Yakfeekuhum Allah wa huwa al Samee' al Aleem Fa qute'ah dabir alqawm alatheen thalamu wa alhamdu lelah rab al alameen."

"1945 ****unknown**** And Enough for you is Allah, the all hearer, the all knower, So the ruse (or scheme) of the people who have commited injustice is cut (or stopped, or subdued) and praise be to Allah, the lord of the worlds."

And the Second side (bottom pair below):
"Nasrun min allah wa fat'hun kareeb, Wa bashir al mu'mineen. Wa ma ramait ith ramait laken allah rama ********unknown********* ha mim, ha mim, ha mim, ha mim, ha mim, ha mim, ha mim ***unknown***"

"Close victory from God and close conquest, so give glad tidings to the believers. If you have shot your bow, it is not you who have shot, but it is God. ********unknown******** Repeated invocation ***unknown***"

Pictures edited to read from right to left and top then bottom.

Gene,

These indeed can be formed to make a sort of context, maybe that is what the scribe have ment. Each Quranic Surah has its own context and in general they are not mixed together.

Regards,

Lotfy

[Dom]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Akhi Dom,

The letters Ha mim are derived from Quran, There are numerous letters in the Quran such as "Ha mim Sad" and many others that arent yet encrypted. Ha Mim is also a name of a Quranic Surah.

These are not to be mistaken with Ameen which has roots in all semitic languages.

This will explain more:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muqatta%27at

Choukhane galizan Lotfi
this night I will go to sleep less stupid than this morning when I waked-up

à +

Dom

[Atlantia]

I'm still hoping that someone can fill in the blanks where the translation is incomplete.
So a little BUMP, just in case