Scale armor

[laEspadaAncha]

Interestingly, the ruler in the first pic (in the second post) seems to indicate a size similar to if not congruent with the measurement (2.5x4 cm) provided in the Met's catalog.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by laEspadaAncha

Interestingly, the ruler in the first pic (in the second post) seems to indicate a size similar to if not congruent with the measurement (2.5x4 cm) provided in the Met's catalog.

Hi Chris,
You definitely have the eagle eye thing goin on there! This really is compelling in comparing these shield type plates as having apparantly been in use in the Spanish colonial sphere from much earlier period. There have been a number of early armour elements found in several locations beyond this as well. I believe the plates found in New Mexico were in northern regions, and as this mantle was discovered in west Texas it certainly would suggest that these were around. It is interesting that the items in the LaRocca article were disconnected pieces found in a grouping in context, while this mantle was discovered intact.
Definitely a great connection!

All the best,
Jim

[A Senefelder]

The shaping of the Met scales and those in the mantle are awefully similar. The edges along the top and down the sides to the point where the plates begin to taper in exhibit the same slight rolled/raised edge on both sets of plates and slight 3-5 degree curvature. Constructionally, based of course purely on looking at photos they seem nearly identicle.

[Jim McDougall]

I have followed this thread and the subject mantle for quite some time, and read through LaRocca & Rogers (1999) which clearly notes that the metal shield like scales discovered in New Mexico must be from European manufacture, and the article suggests that these seem to be evidence that this style of overlapping scales must have existed in remote areas of Europe far longer than presumed. While there are no specific records of this type of armor extant in inventories or other documentation, it is important to consider that the term for body armour, 'cota de malle' was far more broadly applied than commonly realized. The term has been known to have been used somewhat colloquially with respect to various forms from mail of chain link to cuera (leather jackets) and to varied forms of brigandine.

It is also known than the participants in the developing colonization in these regions in the New World were responsible for furnishing thier own arms and armour, and all manner of these were present from reasonably new to old or surplus items, as well as it would seem antiquated styles from remote regions obviously depending on circumstances of the individual. It does not seem unreasonable to think that at some point in these colonial times a number of these scaled armors may have arrived in New Mexico. Clearly there must have been a very small number, as the estimated number of extant pieces of these small shields reach only about 500, with only abour 200 that have been examined, the others unaccounted for. As has been noted, the shields in the article (op.cit. Rogers & LaRocca, 1999) are remarkably similar, if not the same as those seen on the 'mantle' in discussion.

The area in New Mexico where these where found, and the area where the mantle was found are actually not remarkably distant geographically, and it does not seem unreasonably to think that diffusion of these armor shields as sundry items via American Indian tribes and/or Comanchero traders in these regions would be unlikely. What is remarkable is that these items, with one grouping found in New Mexico as scattered pieces, and an entire 'Bishops Mantle' type body armour found in Texas constructed of these same, most unusual scales present an almost stunning coincidence.

It is unfortunate that we do not have the body armor worn by Chief Iron Shirt in 1858, and clearly in the regions of the Comanche and Plains Apache, as it might reveal the nature of the scaled armour apparantly used. In all other accounts I have ever seen, reference to his armor only decribes it as 'old Spanish armour', without further detail.

If it was similar to the mantle of our discussion, which seems to be fashioned by an artisan somewhat skilled in the fashioning of this type armour..would this suggest that perhaps a small number of these types of armour were fashioned by the Spanish reusing the old components of antiquated armour?
If this was the case, could these have been acquired by warriors of local tribes, and the one in Texas found intact, while the other (s) in New Mexico had been lost and come apart?

While considering this as a possibility, we still have not come up with further examples of 19th century fraternal or theatrical costumes and regalia. It would be interesting to see how these items would compare to known styles and thier construction. What remains a puzzle however is, these shields seem to be authentically European and of early period...in this case, how would they end up in such costume type wear, and both in rare and unusual archaeological circumstances?

All best regards,
Jim

[pbleed]

Dear Friends,
The press of other chores has kept me from responding to the addtions to this thread. I do thank you all.
Please let me also call your attention to a pair of posters on the scale mantle that were developed by my student colleagues. They present descriptive background and a bit of problem orientation to our investigaion of the mantle.
The posters are down at the bottom on my page (itself now dated).
http://www.unl.edu/anthro/afaculty/bleed.shtml
I hope you will find it of interest.
Again, than you for the interesting insights.
Peter