Posted for Marteymiso: Blade Markings for Identification

Lee · 13th March 2011, 02:32 PM

Posted for Marteymiso:

Quote:

We were reading your discussion page ... and have been searching for a sword that my dad found many years ago. The closest item, was on your site. However that one is VOC, and our sword has no such marking? Would you mind giving us a hint at what ours may be? It has no handle, it says 1787 has 4 cloverleafs on it. Also shows King Richard and Charles the III (we assume).

Jim McDougall · 19th March 2011, 09:38 PM

This blade is from apparantly standard Spanish types of sword at the end of the 18th century, and these markings are well described in the Wallace Collection references(p.353).
Identical markings with crowned R and an S inside large C cypher with three large 'I's represent Charles III of Spain. Examples seem to have the 1787 date, but whether relating to a regulation or model year/contract issue etc is unclear. Swords with similar marks, date are known used by Spanish during Battle of Cape St. Vincent, 1797, Capt. Horatio Nelson R.N. boarded the San Josef.

Hope you're still out there Marteymiso, sorry nobody answered this.

Marteymiso · 31st March 2011, 03:21 AM

Thank you! That's still better info than the "whole lot of nothing" I had before.
If anyone else has more hints... all ears!

Jim McDougall · 31st March 2011, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marteymiso

Thank you! That's still better info than the "whole lot of nothing" I had before.
If anyone else has more hints... all ears!

Me too! Since I identified the markings from actual examples shown in references (Wallace Collection and similar in "Spanish Military Weapons in Colonial America 1700-1821") it would be interesting to what else it could me. The four image cross type configuration was indeed used by the Dutch in some cases with markings known as the 'kleeblatt' (=cloverleaf) and occur on thier coinage. The markings here with the C s III are for Charles III of Spain, the crowned R a regal acceptance or arsenal makg preseumably. Since we have no hilt we can only guess at how it was mounted.

Jim McDougall · 3rd April 2011, 12:59 AM

Well I guess thats gonna be it for this one. Unless we discover more on the provenance, without a hilt we cant really go much further. I think the markings have been explained as much as possible also. Incidentally, the VOC mentioned refers of course to the Dutch East India Co. and as noted, sometimes occurs on that coinage with four dots.

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19th March 2011, 09:38 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,938	This blade is from apparantly standard Spanish types of sword at the end of the 18th century, and these markings are well described in the Wallace Collection references(p.353). Identical markings with crowned R and an S inside large C cypher with three large 'I's represent Charles III of Spain. Examples seem to have the 1787 date, but whether relating to a regulation or model year/contract issue etc is unclear. Swords with similar marks, date are known used by Spanish during Battle of Cape St. Vincent, 1797, Capt. Horatio Nelson R.N. boarded the San Josef. Hope you're still out there Marteymiso, sorry nobody answered this.

31st March 2011, 03:21 AM	#3
Marteymiso Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1	Thank you! That's still better info than the "whole lot of nothing" I had before. If anyone else has more hints... all ears!

3rd April 2011, 12:59 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,938	Well I guess thats gonna be it for this one. Unless we discover more on the provenance, without a hilt we cant really go much further. I think the markings have been explained as much as possible also. Incidentally, the VOC mentioned refers of course to the Dutch East India Co. and as noted, sometimes occurs on that coinage with four dots. *****to the archives************************