eBay Toss of the Dice (NEW PICS!)

[David]

Originally Posted by Henk

David, what a lovely keris. Worth gambling, i should say.

About the dress i'm not completely sure where i got it from, but i do remember that it is said or written that this type of dress was used to wear the keris for barong dance. If it was developed from a cultural event or that it was used to impress those who traveled for pleasure, i don't know.

Yes Henk, i read the same somewhere as well, but i have no idea where and would love to find some source material on the subject.

[Laowang]

Originally Posted by David

Yes Henk, i read the same somewhere as well, but i have no idea where and would love to find some source material on the subject.

There is a reference in Frey, The Kris (third edition), page 74, caption for figure 31 which shows a similar scabbard and describes it as a 'carved wood Barong dance kris'. Beyond this I haven't personally seen any references.

Congratulations on a fine blade for a very fine price. Sometimes Ebay gambles do pay off.

[David]

Originally Posted by Laowang

There is a reference in Frey, The Kris (third edition), page 74, caption for figure 31 which shows a similar scabbard and describes it as a 'carved wood Barong dance kris'. Beyond this I haven't personally seen any references.

Congratulations on a fine blade for a very fine price. Sometimes Ebay gambles do pay off.

Thank you Laowang. Come to think of it i do recall seeing this particular reference before. Unfortunately, in all the images i have ever seen of the Barong Dance the keris are already unsheathed so there is no telling if there is anything to this idea.

[A. G. Maisey]

Here is an image of a heavily carved scabbard that is in the Neka Museum in Ubud. The material is ivory. The display tag does not give any information on specific purpose nor use.

I would be extremely cautious in accepting any information provided in Edward Frey's book on keris. The photos are good and provided the captions are cross checked, these photos can be quite useful for ID purposes, as they are clear and distinct and cover a range of styles.

[Laowang]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Here is an image of a heavily carved scabbard that is in the Neka Museum in Ubud. The material is ivory. The display tag does not give any information on specific purpose nor use.

I would be extremely cautious in accepting any information provided in Edward Frey's book on keris. The photos are good and provided the captions are cross checked, these photos can be quite useful for ID purposes, as they are clear and distinct and cover a range of styles.

Ha, ha, ha. Agreed. My mention of Frey's attribution is certainly not an endorsement that he is correct.

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I would be extremely cautious in accepting any information provided in Edward Frey's book on keris. The photos are good and provided the captions are cross checked, these photos can be quite useful for ID purposes, as they are clear and distinct and cover a range of styles.

I think we can all agree with this. I was just trying to determine where i had heard the story, not whether it was true or not.
What do you think in terms of age speculation on the blade Alan. So little has been written in English specifically on the Balinese keris and identifying it's various dhapurs through the centuries. Any ideas?
I am also curious about the very simple kinatah. I don't get the feeling that this rather plain and unpretentious application was done to try to raise the sale potential of this keris. It's just too simple and wasn't even mentioned in the sellers description.

[A. G. Maisey]

David, I've pretty much stayed out of discussion on this keris, because I really have nothing positive to add.

I don't think the blade is all that old, maybe mid-19th century earliest, it is FAQ for Bali keris of this era, the gold, if indeed it is gold, is not a recognised ornamentaion in this position and style, my immediate thought is that it may have been added to cover a hole in this part of the blade, if not this, then I have no idea what its there for. The dress in my opinion is quite good, and I'd leave it as is. Yeah, sure its not old, but so what? Are we students and collectors of the keris, or antique collectors? Things do not need to be old to be good, and just because something is old, that does not necessarily make it good. Of its type, this dress is pretty nice.

The really great thing about this keris is the price. This was a give-away.

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I don't think the blade is all that old, maybe mid-19th century earliest, it is FAQ for Bali keris of this era, the gold, if indeed it is gold, is not a recognised ornamentaion in this position and style, my immediate thought is that it may have been added to cover a hole in this part of the blade, if not this, then I have no idea what its there for. The dress in my opinion is quite good, and I'd leave it as is. Yeah, sure its not old, but so what? Are we students and collectors of the keris, or antique collectors? Things do not need to be old to be good, and just because something is old, that does not necessarily make it good. Of its type, this dress is pretty nice.

No worries Alan, you haven't said anything particularly negative.
I am questioning about the age of the blade, not because it matters to me that it be 18th C or earlier, but because i find the dhapur, especially in regards to the execution around the gandik, to be different from what we commonly find on late 19th and early 20th C Bali keris. I did not mean to imply that it held any great antiquity and i never imaged it was anything more that a fairly average quality blade. As for the gold, i don't believe it is covering any holes and it was once on the other side of the blade as well in the same spot. Just trace remnants remain there.
And i am sure that i am not knocking the sheath. The craft is good for what it is and i do plan to leave it as is. Frey may be off track indeed, but i would still like to trace the origin of this sheath style. I don't have any problem with it being newer and i'm actually finding it a pleasant ensemble.