Philippine Knife, Or Letter Opener ??

Robert · 7th January 2011, 03:24 AM

This is a little odd to me. I've seen these WWII era knives with steel blades and wood, horn and aluminum hilts before but this is the first all brass version that I've seen. At a little over 11 inches it seems a little large for a letter opener but I cannot think of anything else that it might be. It could be just another tourist piece but I would think that if it was they would be more common like the others. It only cost me a little over 8 dollars, so no matter what it turns out to be I'm not out much.

I just wish that they had not polished it. These are the pictures from the auction. Any help (or just comments) with this will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Robert

Battara · 7th January 2011, 04:09 AM

Yeah, it's a tourist or at least market piece.

Robert · 7th January 2011, 05:53 AM

Hi Jose,
Yeah, I thought that it was. I'm starting to wonder if maybe this was designed to be a paper weight? I just thought it was kind of interesting.

Robert

tom hyle · 7th January 2011, 04:12 PM

Granted that swords made for professional soldiers and noblemen have traditionally been custom made, nevertheless, the others have always been market pieces, no?
Certainly not designed as a paperweight, because the design is exactly that of daggers of the wwII and immediately post-wwII era that are usually made in steel. May be intended as a letter opener/paper weight, but certainly is not designed as one; is copied directly from steel daggers.
It is worth noting that there is a tradition of brass daggers in the region, which are locally believed (and a number of medical personel who post to this forum have testified some validity to such belief) to induce poisoned/nonhealing wounds.

Robert · 8th January 2011, 01:05 AM

Accidental double post. Sorry.

Robert · 8th January 2011, 01:07 AM

Tom, Thank you for your thoughts on this knife/daggers potential use. I have other Philippine daggers, some with brass and some with copper blades but as I stated earlier "this is the first all brass version that I've seen". After it arrives and I can see how well or how poorly made the blade is it will be easier to decide if it was just made for show (letter opener/paper weight) or if it could actually be used for the purpose that you described. Again my thanks.

Robert

Battara · 9th January 2011, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom hyle

It is worth noting that there is a tradition of brass daggers in the region, which are locally believed (and a number of medical personel who post to this forum have testified some validity to such belief) to induce poisoned/nonhealing wounds.

Well Tom, this would certainly explain the occasional brass blade I have seen, even one from the Philippine Revolutionary days.

Robert · 9th January 2011, 03:56 AM

Here are the others that I have. The two outside daggers have copper blades while the two center ones have brass blades. I would like to add that the dagger on the fare right with the dark blade I had checked and the blade itself is actually coated in arsenic.

A truly nasty little piece of work.

Battara · 9th January 2011, 04:21 AM

These particular small daggers would be good for up close assassinations, which did happen in the Katipunan era.

Robert · 9th January 2011, 04:27 PM

Hello Jose, The two daggers with the copper blades I think would date from the late 19th to early 20th century but the ones with the brass blades I'm not sure of. I think the one on the right could be first quarter 20th century and the other second quarter? If you would, could you possibly tell me what your thoughts as to their age would be? Thank you.

Robert

Robert · 11th January 2011, 11:13 PM

The Knife/dagger arrived yesterday and it is built very sturdy. The weight of this is impressive and helps very much in stabbing. After a thorough cleaning I just had to try it out on a beef roast my wife was getting ready to cook (she needed pockets to place the garlic in anyway).

I had no problem in getting the blade to penetrate the roast clear to the hilt. I am now doubting that this was ever intended to be a paper weight/letter opener but you never know.

Robert

Battara · 12th January 2011, 02:41 AM

Well brass is one of the harder "soft" metals.

As far as age is concerned, I am a little in the dark, but if these are truly Katipunero daggers for concealment, I would then say 1890s. Unfortunately this is speculation on my part.

VANDOO · 12th January 2011, 06:19 AM

I HAVE A DAGGER ALMOST IDENTICAL TO THE FIRST ONE IN THIS POST AND HAVE SEEN A FEW MORE LIKE IT. MINE HAS AN ALUMINUM HANDLE AND STEEL BLADE AND IS SHARP. I HAVE ALWAYS ASSUMED THIS TO BE THE PHILIPPINE VERSION OF THE CHEAP HUNTING KNIVES AND DAGGERS THAT CAME OUT AFTER WW2. MANY HAD ALUMINUM HANDLES SOME SHAPED LIKE A FIST, OTHERS A KNIGHTS HEAD AND A FEW WITH THE FEMALE FIGURE. I ORDERED ONE FROM THE BACK OF A COMIC BOOK WHEN I WAS ABOUT EIGHT IT WAS FROM GERMANY AND HAD A IMITATION STAG HANDLE AND A STAG ETCHED ON THE BLADE. ITS GAURD WAS ALUMINUM AND CURVED AROUND THE HAND FROM THE POMMEL AND GAURD LIKE THE ABOVE PHILIPPINE KNIFE.
PERHAPS THIS FORM EVOLVED FROM A PURELY PHILIPPINE DESIGN THAT HAD BEEN AROUND A LONG TIME OR IS SOMETHING THAT CAME ALONG POST WW2 AND SOLD AS A HUNTING KNIFE?
DOES YOUR BRASS EXAMPLE HAVE A PATINA AND SHOW AGE AND WEAR?

Robert · 12th January 2011, 03:27 PM

Hello Vandoo, The original brass knife in this post is defiantly WWII or later and is an exact copy of knives that were made of steel with either wood, horn or aluminum hilts. Like I said earlier unfortunately the knife had been polished up for auction so there is no patina left on it.

Robert

celtan · 20th January 2011, 09:23 AM

A friend of mine has one, with an aluminum handle. It's dated, with the year 1945 and Philippines inscribed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Coleman

Hello Vandoo, The original brass knife in this post is defiantly WWII or later and is an exact copy of knives that were made of steel with either wood, horn or aluminum hilts. Like I said earlier unfortunately the knife had been polished up for auction so there is no patina left on it.

Robert

7th January 2011, 03:24 AM	#1
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Philippine Knife, Or Letter Opener ?? This is a little odd to me. I've seen these WWII era knives with steel blades and wood, horn and aluminum hilts before but this is the first all brass version that I've seen. At a little over 11 inches it seems a little large for a letter opener but I cannot think of anything else that it might be. It could be just another tourist piece but I would think that if it was they would be more common like the others. It only cost me a little over 8 dollars, so no matter what it turns out to be I'm not out much. I just wish that they had not polished it. These are the pictures from the auction. Any help (or just comments) with this will be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Robert Attached Images

9th January 2011, 03:56 AM	#8
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Here are the others that I have. The two outside daggers have copper blades while the two center ones have brass blades. I would like to add that the dagger on the fare right with the dark blade I had checked and the blade itself is actually coated in arsenic. A truly nasty little piece of work. Attached Images

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7th January 2011, 04:09 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Yeah, it's a tourist or at least market piece.

7th January 2011, 05:53 AM	#3
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hi Jose, Yeah, I thought that it was. I'm starting to wonder if maybe this was designed to be a paper weight? I just thought it was kind of interesting. Robert

7th January 2011, 04:12 PM	#4
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Granted that swords made for professional soldiers and noblemen have traditionally been custom made, nevertheless, the others have always been market pieces, no? Certainly not designed as a paperweight, because the design is exactly that of daggers of the wwII and immediately post-wwII era that are usually made in steel. May be intended as a letter opener/paper weight, but certainly is not designed as one; is copied directly from steel daggers. It is worth noting that there is a tradition of brass daggers in the region, which are locally believed (and a number of medical personel who post to this forum have testified some validity to such belief) to induce poisoned/nonhealing wounds.

8th January 2011, 01:05 AM	#5
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Accidental double post. Sorry.

8th January 2011, 01:07 AM	#6
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Tom, Thank you for your thoughts on this knife/daggers potential use. I have other Philippine daggers, some with brass and some with copper blades but as I stated earlier "this is the first all brass version that I've seen". After it arrives and I can see how well or how poorly made the blade is it will be easier to decide if it was just made for show (letter opener/paper weight) or if it could actually be used for the purpose that you described. Again my thanks. Robert

9th January 2011, 04:21 AM	#9
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	These particular small daggers would be good for up close assassinations, which did happen in the Katipunan era.

9th January 2011, 04:27 PM	#10
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Jose, The two daggers with the copper blades I think would date from the late 19th to early 20th century but the ones with the brass blades I'm not sure of. I think the one on the right could be first quarter 20th century and the other second quarter? If you would, could you possibly tell me what your thoughts as to their age would be? Thank you. Robert

11th January 2011, 11:13 PM	#11
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	The Knife/dagger arrived yesterday and it is built very sturdy. The weight of this is impressive and helps very much in stabbing. After a thorough cleaning I just had to try it out on a beef roast my wife was getting ready to cook (she needed pockets to place the garlic in anyway). I had no problem in getting the blade to penetrate the roast clear to the hilt. I am now doubting that this was ever intended to be a paper weight/letter opener but you never know. Robert

12th January 2011, 02:41 AM	#12
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Well brass is one of the harder "soft" metals. As far as age is concerned, I am a little in the dark, but if these are truly Katipunero daggers for concealment, I would then say 1890s. Unfortunately this is speculation on my part.

12th January 2011, 06:19 AM	#13
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I HAVE A DAGGER ALMOST IDENTICAL TO THE FIRST ONE IN THIS POST AND HAVE SEEN A FEW MORE LIKE IT. MINE HAS AN ALUMINUM HANDLE AND STEEL BLADE AND IS SHARP. I HAVE ALWAYS ASSUMED THIS TO BE THE PHILIPPINE VERSION OF THE CHEAP HUNTING KNIVES AND DAGGERS THAT CAME OUT AFTER WW2. MANY HAD ALUMINUM HANDLES SOME SHAPED LIKE A FIST, OTHERS A KNIGHTS HEAD AND A FEW WITH THE FEMALE FIGURE. I ORDERED ONE FROM THE BACK OF A COMIC BOOK WHEN I WAS ABOUT EIGHT IT WAS FROM GERMANY AND HAD A IMITATION STAG HANDLE AND A STAG ETCHED ON THE BLADE. ITS GAURD WAS ALUMINUM AND CURVED AROUND THE HAND FROM THE POMMEL AND GAURD LIKE THE ABOVE PHILIPPINE KNIFE. PERHAPS THIS FORM EVOLVED FROM A PURELY PHILIPPINE DESIGN THAT HAD BEEN AROUND A LONG TIME OR IS SOMETHING THAT CAME ALONG POST WW2 AND SOLD AS A HUNTING KNIFE? DOES YOUR BRASS EXAMPLE HAVE A PATINA AND SHOW AGE AND WEAR?

12th January 2011, 03:27 PM	#14
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Vandoo, The original brass knife in this post is defiantly WWII or later and is an exact copy of knives that were made of steel with either wood, horn or aluminum hilts. Like I said earlier unfortunately the knife had been polished up for auction so there is no patina left on it. Robert