Spanish ?? I.D. Help Needed

celtan · 4th January 2011, 02:44 AM

Might be a spanish blade married to a foreign hilt, or it could be completely Spanish. All that can be said for certain is it follows spanish style. It has a fully functional pas dáne, which places it from late 1670 t0 1770.

Heck, even the blade could be german made, as Solingen et al made good quality copies, including the now famous running-wolf mark from Maestre Perrillo, which paradoxically became Solingen's trademark.

The Toledo inscription is seen in various motifs, from Toledo Me Fecit, Toletum Me Fecit, En Toledo, En Toleto, En To, En Tol. The stop mark comes in all sizes and shapes, often a cross over a half circle or orb, and sometimes even a group of three crosses.

The clamshell small guard seems to say to me ~1720. The metallic grip may be a later replacement.

This one is a dainty thing, Cortes swords were brutish affairs made for cutting and slashing. For work, not show.

Congrats on your acquisition.

Hotspur · 4th January 2011, 04:09 AM

I thought the running wolf (master doggie) was a guild mark for Passau and virtually discontinued once Solingen became the source of many blades. Ready steel from the area being a prime motivation for blade making (and a lot more in time) there.

Cheers

GC

fernando · 4th January 2011, 12:39 PM

Hi Manolete

,
I guess i follow GC's reasoning.
The mark adopted by Julián del Rey was a doggy (perrillo), not so similar in shape to a (Passau) wolf.
Don't think both symbols could be one only

.

.

Rikkn · 4th January 2011, 01:24 PM

I looked through the doggy marks also, what does it all mean ? I will take pictures of the whole sword & scabbard & post them in a little while.

Rikkn · 4th January 2011, 01:48 PM

More pictures. Blade is 28" long, overall sword is 34.5 " long. Blade tapers from 5/8 " to 1/8" just before tip. Scabbard is 30" long, has the number 19 over the screw near opening.

cornelistromp · 4th January 2011, 03:11 PM

Hi,

I don't see any running wolf mark, but see clearly the woording TOLEDO,
with a proper 17thC E and proper 17thC D.
the long olive shaped pommel together with the non functional pas d'ane ( 18thc size, you will break your finger if you put one through the pas d'ane) together with the rococo diamond shaped chiseling at the pommel foot and spirally fluted grip as seen on 1750 silver hilted small swords makes me date date the hilt in the second part of the 18thC, 1750-1800. the blade is probably 100 years older.

with the shell guards it can be a late 18thC (Spanish?) marine officer small sword.

Best,

fernando · 4th January 2011, 04:14 PM

Very good and solid impressions Jasper.
By the way, the mentioning of the running wolf mark by Celtan was only a part of his dissertation ... not that he was seeing it.
The scabbard must be a much later addition, right?

4th January 2011, 04:09 AM	#2
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 549	I thought the running wolf (master doggie) was a guild mark for Passau and virtually discontinued once Solingen became the source of many blades. Ready steel from the area being a prime motivation for blade making (and a lot more in time) there. Cheers GC Attached Images

4th January 2011, 12:39 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Manolete , I guess i follow GC's reasoning. The mark adopted by Julián del Rey was a doggy (perrillo), not so similar in shape to a (Passau) wolf. Don't think both symbols could be one only . . Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 4th January 2011 at 12:51 PM.

4th January 2011, 01:48 PM	#5
Rikkn Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Ormond by the Sea, Fl Posts: 50	More pictures. Blade is 28" long, overall sword is 34.5 " long. Blade tapers from 5/8 " to 1/8" just before tip. Scabbard is 30" long, has the number 19 over the screw near opening. Attached Images

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4th January 2011, 02:44 AM	#1
celtan Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: PR, USA Posts: 679	Might be a spanish blade married to a foreign hilt, or it could be completely Spanish. All that can be said for certain is it follows spanish style. It has a fully functional pas dáne, which places it from late 1670 t0 1770. Heck, even the blade could be german made, as Solingen et al made good quality copies, including the now famous running-wolf mark from Maestre Perrillo, which paradoxically became Solingen's trademark. The Toledo inscription is seen in various motifs, from Toledo Me Fecit, Toletum Me Fecit, En Toledo, En Toleto, En To, En Tol. The stop mark comes in all sizes and shapes, often a cross over a half circle or orb, and sometimes even a group of three crosses. The clamshell small guard seems to say to me ~1720. The metallic grip may be a later replacement. This one is a dainty thing, Cortes swords were brutish affairs made for cutting and slashing. For work, not show. Congrats on your acquisition.

4th January 2011, 01:24 PM	#4
Rikkn Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Ormond by the Sea, Fl Posts: 50	I looked through the doggy marks also, what does it all mean ? I will take pictures of the whole sword & scabbard & post them in a little while.

4th January 2011, 03:11 PM	#6
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,069	Hi, I don't see any running wolf mark, but see clearly the woording TOLEDO, with a proper 17thC E and proper 17thC D. the long olive shaped pommel together with the non functional pas d'ane ( 18thc size, you will break your finger if you put one through the pas d'ane) together with the rococo diamond shaped chiseling at the pommel foot and spirally fluted grip as seen on 1750 silver hilted small swords makes me date date the hilt in the second part of the 18thC, 1750-1800. the blade is probably 100 years older. with the shell guards it can be a late 18thC (Spanish?) marine officer small sword. Best,

4th January 2011, 04:14 PM	#7
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Very good and solid impressions Jasper. By the way, the mentioning of the running wolf mark by Celtan was only a part of his dissertation ... not that he was seeing it. The scabbard must be a much later addition, right?