Large Wahabite Jambiya for comment.

[Atlantia]

This one looks to have good age. I'd guess late 19th or early 20th. The camera flash actually makes it look a bit cheap, but the quality seems very good. Belt is complete, if a little dry (would you feed the leather?). Even the domed brass studs are hand made. Seems a nice quality example and complete.
I believe a good friend of mine has a twin for this one

[kahnjar1]

I assume these are what you are refering to?? Thats a nice piece Gene. Perhaps its lonely?? Its always nice to get the belt with it. Think I saw it on a certain site??
The term "wahabite" is really a term used (like Jambiya) by collectors, to describe a large range of daggers of this long bladed type. More correctly according to the description applied to this particular pattern in the 1991 Exhibition at the King Faisal Center, Riyadh, the correct name is (and I quote) "A DHARIA dagger known as MALSA, with a blade of the BEYD type.
This pattern contemporary to the Bani Shahr, Bani Malik and Bani Qarn tribes"
Hope this is of interest.
Stu

BY THE WAY-----HOWS THE SUNNY SOUTH?? A BIT COLD?

[Atlantia]

Hi Stu,
Yes mate, I did mean yours of course
Thanks for the info. It came from a local dealer. Can you PM me the site you saw it on, thats an interesting turn of events.
Have you ever seen a left handed one of these? Or are they all right handed?
Its pretty frozen and miserable here, thanks
Best
Gene

[colin henshaw]

Looks a good old example, and nice with the belt.

I would leave the leather alone.

Regards.

[Lew]

Nice piece you have there . As for the age I would think after 1920-30?

Congrats

[Dom]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Belt is complete, if a little dry (would you feed the leather?).

Hi
for sure, definitively, you have to have to feed the leather, the best ... grease for gun
then, make a serious massage with your fingers ...
not with a brush ... too soft, the grease must enter the leather

à +

Dom

[Rick]

I suggest this stuff for dried out leather .

It will initially darken a bit but with time the original color returns .
Inhibits mold and mildew .

http://www.leathertherapy.com/

[Atlantia]

Colin,
Thanks mate, I'm just worried the leather will start to crack if I don't feed it a little.

Lew,
Thanks bud, its crtainly an interesting thing.
Thats quite a late date, how come?

Dom,
Gun grease! Really?

Rick,
Mold and mildrew! hadn't even thought of that!!

[Lew]

[QUOTE=Atlantia]Colin,
Thanks mate, I'm just worried the leather will start to crack if I don't feed it a little.

Lew,
Thanks bud, its crtainly an interesting thing.
Thats quite a late date, how come?

These types of daggers start showing up after 1920 I have a few of them and have shown them to Artzi and he confirmed that they are the second quarter of the 20th century. Also many of these daggers were brought back after WW1 AND WW2. I have an old one with a belt and it has a zippered pouch the zipper is a YKK brand so it dates it to the late 1940s.

[Dom]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Dom, Gun grease! Really?

YES ... massage with grease (not oil) really, it's work superb

à +

Dom

[Rick]

[QUOTE=Atlantia Rick,
Mold and mildrew! hadn't even thought of that!! [/QUOTE]

I have a pair of Belstaff Motorcycle boots from 1964; still ... thanks to this stuff .

Fed a lovely Kaskara scabbard very dried out with this stuff 3-4 years ago; it is still supple and has not dried out .

Good stuff .

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Hi Stu,
Yes mate, I did mean yours of course
Thanks for the info. It came from a local dealer. Can you PM me the site you saw it on, thats an interesting turn of events.
Have you ever seen a left handed one of these? Or are they all right handed?
Its pretty frozen and miserable here, thanks
Best
Gene

You have PM on the other matter, but I did not answer the bit about right and left hand. ALL pics I have of these being worn show that they are worn to be drawn by the LEFT hand, and, no, I have never seen a right handed one in any books either.
I can only assume that because in Islamic custom the right hand is used for eating, that other things (including ablutions) and killing is for the left hand. Those here of the Muslim faith can perhaps confirm this.

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

You have PM on the other matter, but I did not answer the bit about right and left hand. ALL pics I have of these being worn show that they are worn to be drawn by the LEFT hand, and, no, I have never seen a right handed one in any books either.
I can only assume that because in Islamic custom the right hand is used for eating, that other things (including ablutions) and killing is for the left hand. Those here of the Muslim faith can perhaps confirm this.

Hi Stu,

I've got that backwards then! I thought they were worn facing left but drawn with the right hand in an upward arc and then reversed. The studs make the handle feel awful in the left hand. So do these chaps fight with them left handed?
Is that picture dated? You can see why the belts are so small, they are very slightly built.
Can you have a look at the end of the scabbards on your Stu, are they modified brass cartridge casings? Also, the silver part of the end looks like a big silver thimble!
I'll take a close-up later.


Lew,
Thanks for the info. Do you still have similar examples?
If so can you post pics?

Dom,
Handy tip, thanks

Rick,
I have a pair of motorcross boots from the 70s! LOL.
Part of a film prop costume actually.

Best
Gene

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

You have PM on the other matter, but I did not answer the bit about right and left hand. ALL pics I have of these being worn show that they are worn to be drawn by the LEFT hand, and, no, I have never seen a right handed one in any books either.
I can only assume that because in Islamic custom the right hand is used for eating, that other things (including ablutions) and killing is for the left hand. Those here of the Muslim faith can perhaps confirm this.

i dont recall anything in my faith about using the left hand for killing. but yes, the right hand is for eating, hand shaking and anything thats demands interaction between other people (for example, its prefered if i hand you an item with my right hand rather then the left). the left hand is not used for human interactions (cant find a better word) because its used for cleaning the body or touching anything dirty.

Beautiful picture, looks like a picture i saw long time ago or maybe its the same one... as far as i know, the guy with the "omani" janbiya seems to be a sharif.

btw, about the name of the "wahabite" janbiya, bedouin friends of mine call iy simply.. janbiya, though i reckon that the Saudi source is more historically correct.

i have found such janbiya but its shorter then the usual, the scabbard is of good quality and the blade is too clean to be old but it is a janbiya of decent quality, so is it common to find shorter examples? will try to provide pictures whenever am free

to atlantia ; the diet of pre-modernisation arabia wasnt as fattening as now, hehe.

A.Alnakkas

[Lew]

Here are a few from my collection past and present. The real big one is no longer with me.

[Atlantia]

A.Alnakkas,

We have the same trouble here with fattening food! In those days people ate to live, now many live to eat!
So do these chaps fight with these in the left or right hand?

Lew,
Nice selection there! Its intersting to see other types and the similarity of the belts etc. Thanks for sharing.


Stu, Pictures of the scabbard end. Looks like a cartridge on a long thimble to me!

[Atlantia]

I've got to say, this is the best dressed camel I've ever seen! No wonder he is smiling

[A.alnakkas]

oh yes thats one happy camel there, hehe.

the only source i found confirms that its called Malsa. no info about how its wielded though...

so is the shorter examples more common?

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

i dont recall anything in my faith about using the left hand for killing. but yes, the right hand is for eating, hand shaking and anything thats demands interaction between other people (for example, its prefered if i hand you an item with my right hand rather then the left). the left hand is not used for human interactions (cant find a better word) because its used for cleaning the body or touching anything dirty.

Beautiful picture, looks like a picture i saw long time ago or maybe its the same one... as far as i know, the guy with the "omani" janbiya seems to be a sharif.

btw, about the name of the "wahabite" janbiya, bedouin friends of mine call iy simply.. janbiya, though i reckon that the Saudi source is more historically correct.

i have found such janbiya but its shorter then the usual, the scabbard is of good quality and the blade is too clean to be old but it is a janbiya of decent quality, so is it common to find shorter examples? will try to provide pictures whenever am free

to atlantia ; the diet of pre-modernisation arabia wasnt as fattening as now, hehe.

A.Alnakkas

The pic in question appears in Elgood's Arms and Armour of Arabia, and the caption with it reads:
"The Sharif Yahya flanked by his gun-holding slave and two lesser Sharifs in long dark dress. Yahya is the son of Sharif Ahmed whose father was the famous Grand Sharif Abd al-Muttalib deceased in 1886."
I am not sure what one should apply as the length of a "generation" but one could guess I suppose that this pic was taken around 1930ish.
Also here are a couple more pics of Long Jambiya being worn. These pics were taken in the 1980s.

[Steve]

Hi Guys,
Just to add my views to this thread. As far as I'm aware the sabiki dagger is drawn by the right hand in a sweaping motion of an arc almost going over the head. If that description makes sense.

It seems that just about all the sabikis made in quantity in the 1900's come in different sizes for the same style. The photo attached are two I have , one 22inch and one 19 inch, of the style under discussion. Gene, the smaller one does seem to have a brass cartridge as a plug in the toe.

With regards the black and white photo. Although Elgood does give the description noted by Stu, an older caption reads that the picture was of the prize camel of Sherif Jahja. Sherif Jahja is seen with his personal slave ( on the left), an escort with rifle and camel driver. I think those shown wearing sabikis are essentially slaves, bodyguards and attendents. photo taken in 1860.

It has been commented to me that the sabikis in the early days, I would guess 1700/1800's, were initially worn by the " big black guys" (read: guards, probably slaves of african desent) before becoming more wide spread among local tribes. As told to me.

I suspect that some sabikis of usual form are still made today.
Steve

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

oh yes thats one happy camel there, hehe.

the only source i found confirms that its called Malsa. no info about how its wielded though...

so is the shorter examples more common?

Camels are quite cute, if a bit smelly! They seem like they've got real character!! I'd like a pet one

What would you regard as a shorter example of these? Mine is approx 18" in the scabbard.

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Steve

Hi Guys,
Just to add my views to this thread. As far as I'm aware the sabiki dagger is drawn by the right hand in a sweaping motion of an arc almost going over the head. If that description makes sense.

It seems that just about all the sabikis made in quantity in the 1900's come in different sizes for the same style. The photo attached are two I have , one 22inch and one 19 inch, of the style under discussion. Gene, the smaller one does seem to have a brass cartridge as a plug in the toe.

With regards the black and white photo. Although Elgood does give the description noted by Stu, an older caption reads that the picture was of the prize camel of Sherif Jahja. Sherif Jahja is seen with his personal slave ( on the left), an escort with rifle and camel driver. I think those shown wearing sabikis are essentially slaves, bodyguards and attendents. photo taken in 1860.

It has been commented to me that the sabikis in the early days, I would guess 1700/1800's, were initially worn by the " big black guys" (read: guards, probably slaves of african desent) before becoming more wide spread among local tribes. As told to me.

I suspect that some sabikis of usual form are still made today.
Steve

Hi Steve,

That was my understanding of how they are drawn, in an upward arc. Do you know, is the correct draw to grasp the hilt with you hand turned knuckle toward your body so the dagger comes out in the correct grip, or draw it blade down then reverse?

Nice pair you have there BTW!
Are the blades plain like mine?
Sadly the brass part of the scabbard sheet on mine has become brittle with age and cracked/split on both sides. Obviously a very long time ago and the exposed wood has actually gained a deep patina!

Best
Gene

[Steve]

Hi Gene,
I think 18 inch is down the shorter end. The shortest jambiya I have, which I would call a sabiki, is about 15 inches.

Yes, the draw out has the knuckles towrds the body. Although , I guess you could draw the sabiki like dagger. I am guessing, but, I think the reason the sabiki hilt is positioned on the wearers left side is that with the sabiki held horizontal across the body, the upward arc draw keeps the weapon within the bodies frame while if the hilt was on the right the draw would extend the arm and weapon to an extreme right position and possibly interfere with another person - or maybe be impossible in a crowded fight?

My blades are like your one, smooth variety, although I do have other styles which are the same outside but with different blade types - with or without the central ridge. Unfortunately the brass covering is often thin and can split , but most often cut/worn internally from the blade entering into and being removed from the sheath.

Steve