Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > European Armoury

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 27th October 2010, 03:18 PM   #1
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default A cute little bombard

Just arrived from Peru.
The tiniest barrel i have come across: 7,5 X 7 cms. The bore, showing irregular walls, measures around 30 mm.
Forged bronze, with a genuine patina and some slight verdigris spots.
It might have been used, judging by the touch-hole imperfections.
Seller dated it XVII century. This is possible, but i will submit to better judgements.
There are some grid marks on the back of the body.
I wonder whether these things were brought over by Spaniards or were actually forged locally.
So how should i situate it ... meaning how should i name it; Colonial or Spanish-colonial?
Coments will be much welcome

.
Attached Images
  
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th October 2010, 03:54 PM   #2
Matchlock
(deceased)
 
Matchlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
Default

Cute indeed, 'Nando,

I must admit I have never seen anything of this kind, so all I can say is left to mere speculation. I think your idea of its showing Spanish Colonial influence may have hit the target. On the other hand we should not forget that the Inkas had developed a high culture before the Spaniards arrived. 17th century seems quite right to me but I cannot exclude the 16th c. either.

Anyway, take good care of this cute riddle, it sure will get to know some interesting comrades in your collection!

Best,
Michl
Matchlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th October 2010, 07:11 PM   #3
Cesare
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 22
Default

Hi Fernando.
Almost certainly, is a "firecracker of joy". In Italy in 17th century, was called "Mortaretto de allegrezza".
They were made in both bronze and iron and were usually owned by the parish or municipality.
Were very used in the 'Mediterranean region (Spain, Italy). Appeared in the late 16th century and were used until the early 19th century.
In the Firecrackers that I have examined, the diameter seldom exceeds 25 mm, have a very short barrel and a flat base to support them on the ground.
Cesare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th October 2010, 09:01 PM   #4
Dmitry
Member
 
Dmitry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 607
Default

I love the patina on this little piece!
Dmitry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th October 2010, 05:58 PM   #5
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmitry
I love the patina on this little piece!
... And i'll second you.
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th October 2010, 06:13 PM   #6
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matchlock
Cute indeed, 'Nando,

I must admit I have never seen anything of this kind, so all I can say is left to mere speculation. I think your idea of its showing Spanish Colonial influence may have hit the target. On the other hand we should not forget that the Inkas had developed a high culture before the Spaniards arrived. 17th century seems quite right to me but I cannot exclude the 16th c. either.
Thank you for your input, Michl.
I will stand for Spanish Colonial, 16/17th century ... although envious for the Inkas hipothesis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matchlock
Anyway, take good care of this cute riddle, it sure will get to know some interesting comrades in your collection!
Best, Michl
I am busy introducing it to the others ... and i promise i'll be back

.
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th October 2010, 06:18 PM   #7
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cesare
Hi Fernando.
Almost certainly, is a "firecracker of joy". In Italy in 17th century, was called "Mortaretto de allegrezza".
They were made in both bronze and iron and were usually owned by the parish or municipality.
Were very used in the 'Mediterranean region (Spain, Italy). Appeared in the late 16th century and were used until the early 19th century.
In the Firecrackers that I have examined, the diameter seldom exceeds 25 mm, have a very short barrel and a flat base to support them on the ground.
Thank you for your coments, Cesare
Yes, a "Morteirete de Alegria" ... but not necessarily.
These things had multiple utility; could be powder testers, signal mortars, hand cannons ... and also used to trap battle places and castle gates, to explode at the enemy trespassing.
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2010, 07:33 PM   #8
Matchlock
(deceased)
 
Matchlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fernando
Thank you for your input, Michl.
I will stand for Spanish Colonial, 16/17th century ... although envious for the Inkas hipothesis

Hi 'Nando,

Sorry, I did not mean to create some confusion with my hint to the Inka high culture. Of course they - gathering from all we know - did not use firearms, they only got acquainted to them thru the Spaniards.

I just wanted to avoid making the Inka culture appear inferior to that of the Spaniards in general, though the Inkas' warfare obviously was inferior to the Spanish one.

Best, my Portuguese friend, from Lower Bavaria,
Michl
Matchlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2010, 08:07 PM   #9
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default



... from upper Portugal
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.