A composed Malay keris; is it matching?

[Sajen]

I also don't mind to be wrong (I think we all have been wrong one time) but I think when we translate a date it should be correct, this have been my interest. And I am sure we can believe Dom by this.
Of course it may be possible that the date not certainly the date when the silver work was been done but the accepting is nearby. I have tried to take some pictures of the keris from the book and I hope that it is to seen that the style is so similar that it may be possible that it have been the same artist. This pendok is also dated in the same way. The date is 1281 AH = 1864 AD. There is a time difference from only 9 years so it's really possible that it have been the same artist and that the date is the date of fabrication.

[Dom]

to illustre how the engraver is writting
here a date (funny) wrote in Arabic, but following the gregorian calendar

the 2 and the 3 are well recognizable



à +

Dom

[kai]

Hello Detlef,

I hope that it is to seen that the style is so similar that it may be possible that it have been the same artist.

Yes, that's also a nice keris!

However, if you look closely at the embossing work as well as the date engraving, there are also obvious differences. I doubt that we can trace this back to the same workshop much less the same artisan despite the similar date applied.

Regards,
Kai

[David]

Please excuse this westerners ignorance, but isn't Arabic usually read from right to left? Is it different for numbers?

[Dom]

Originally Posted by David

Please excuse this westerners ignorance, but isn't Arabic usually read from right to left? Is it different for numbers?

Hi David
don't mention,
yes, it's different and cause of a lot of error, even for the Arab
coze we mention
- in first the "thousand"
- then the hundred,
- then the units,
- and at last the 'tenth"
and from left to right,
while the text is read from right to left

à +

Dom

[Sajen]

Hi Dom,

any change to decode the other inscription?

Regards,

Detlef

[Dom]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hi Dom,

any change to decode the other inscription?

Regards,

Detlef

Hi Detlef
here all my best ...

SANA either YEAR
1281 either 1864


MA??
no way to go further ... sorry

my translations are "only" translations, no guarantee of authenticity as to their validity
no commitment on OUR part at this level,
our capabilities are limited to a deep knowledge of the Arabic language (Forsa, that means "classic")
and a little knowledge about weapons of the Middle East, and the Great Maghreb

à +

Dom

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Dom

Hi Detlef
here all my best ...

SANA either YEAR
1281 either 1864


MA??
no way to go further ... sorry

my translations are "only" translations, no guarantee of authenticity as to their validity
no commitment on OUR part at this level,
our capabilities are limited to a deep knowledge of the Arabic language (Forsa, that means "classic")
and a little knowledge about weapons of the Middle East, and the Great Maghreb

à +

Dom

Hi Dom,

thank you again! That's more than I supposed to get. This are maybe the initials of the artist.

Kind regards,

Detlef

[David]

Originally Posted by Dom

Hi David
don't mention,
yes, it's different and cause of a lot of error, even for the Arab
coze we mention
- in first the "thousand"
- then the hundred,
- then the units,
- and at last the 'tenth"
and from left to right,
while the text is read from right to left

à +

Dom

Thanks for clearing that up Dom. Of course, as confusing as this sounds to me i always have the greatest admiration for the members her who use English as their second language because as easy as it might come to me i know that it is indeed one of the most difficult languages to master.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by David

Thanks for clearing that up Dom. Of course, as confusing as this sounds to me i always have the greatest admiration for the members her who use English as their second language because as easy as it might come to me i know that it is indeed one of the most difficult languages to master.

Oh, try german!! My wife (from Indonesia) find it sometimes confusing!

[David]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Oh, try german!! My wife (from Indonesia) find it sometimes confusing!

Actually i took 4 years of German in high school. English is a less logical language with far more rules and exceptions to rules so i think in the end it is far more complex and confusing.
BTW, don't try testing my German. After 35 years of not using it after learning it i would be totally lost...

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Detlef,


Yes, that's also a nice keris!

However, if you look closely at the embossing work as well as the date engraving, there are also obvious differences. I doubt that we can trace this back to the same workshop much less the same artisan despite the similar date applied.

Regards,
Kai

Of course this have been a speculative guess!