musings in Bali/Lombok kris

baatar108 · 28th September 2010, 03:54 AM

regards ,selamat kris! -from a new member. I've collected kris for some 30 years or so.Bali/Lombok kris are probably some of the most flamboyant of any in Indonesia, and are still my favorites. Pamors as well as dress can be wonderfully splashy and use lots of treasure stuff-gold,ivory etc. One thing that has always perplexed me is that the quality of gemstones in kris decor is usually very indifferent. I wonder if this is directly related to Hindu astrological consideration- in lots of Indian jewelry with gem components, merely having the gem is what counts. You can see lots of royal and princely jewelry in collections where the metalsmithing ( and the amount of,usually,gold) is fantastic but the actual stones are not great.
I had a great kris years back with a twisted pamor- yeeks, can't remember the name- as well as a many-luk blade. It was done up in very grand style. I do remember the pamor was for chasing rats out of your paddy fields- ablutions of tirtha from a Brahmin were used to wash the blade and the water poured into ricefields.
I'd love to swap tales of actual or retold supernatural experiences. Standing kris are just the start of it,when you get Indonesians going , the kris lore is eerie and often hair-raising.

A. G. Maisey · 28th September 2010, 05:13 AM

In Balinese art convention, it is the overall effect that is important, not the quality of the materials used to achieve that effect. Thus, when we consider the stones used in Balinese keris hilts, the thing that is important is how they look, and that they conform to the required colour scheme.

A variation to this convention can occur when a particular stone is required for a particular purpose, for example, diamonds are a protection against poison, so if you can afford them, diamonds are not a real bad idea to include in your dress --- or the dress of your keris.

It is not unusual, even in very high quality hilts, to see natural gemstones combined with pastes, in order to achieve the desired effect.

From memory, I think Miguel Covarrubias mentions this.

David · 28th September 2010, 02:41 PM

Welcome to the forum Baatar. I hope Alan's explanation has helped you in your further understanding of Balinese dress choices.
If you spend some time using the search function you will no doubt find numerous discussions on the supernatural nature of keris. It is an aspect which has always fascinated me as well, though it is one that is difficult to have any real and meaningful discussion about in the space of an open forum. Stories are rarely first hand and frankly impossible to verify. From my experience members tend to either disbelieve such lore and feel it distracts from the hardcore discussion of keris or they are true believers who don't find this public place a proper venue for such tales.
Still, i always like a good story and find nothing wrong with the telling so if you have some to share feel free to start a thread on the subject.

28th September 2010, 03:54 AM	#1
baatar108 Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: New Mexico-Santa Fe Posts: 9	musings in Bali/Lombok kris regards ,selamat kris! -from a new member. I've collected kris for some 30 years or so.Bali/Lombok kris are probably some of the most flamboyant of any in Indonesia, and are still my favorites. Pamors as well as dress can be wonderfully splashy and use lots of treasure stuff-gold,ivory etc. One thing that has always perplexed me is that the quality of gemstones in kris decor is usually very indifferent. I wonder if this is directly related to Hindu astrological consideration- in lots of Indian jewelry with gem components, merely having the gem is what counts. You can see lots of royal and princely jewelry in collections where the metalsmithing ( and the amount of,usually,gold) is fantastic but the actual stones are not great. I had a great kris years back with a twisted pamor- yeeks, can't remember the name- as well as a many-luk blade. It was done up in very grand style. I do remember the pamor was for chasing rats out of your paddy fields- ablutions of tirtha from a Brahmin were used to wash the blade and the water poured into ricefields. I'd love to swap tales of actual or retold supernatural experiences. Standing kris are just the start of it,when you get Indonesians going , the kris lore is eerie and often hair-raising.

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28th September 2010, 05:13 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	In Balinese art convention, it is the overall effect that is important, not the quality of the materials used to achieve that effect. Thus, when we consider the stones used in Balinese keris hilts, the thing that is important is how they look, and that they conform to the required colour scheme. A variation to this convention can occur when a particular stone is required for a particular purpose, for example, diamonds are a protection against poison, so if you can afford them, diamonds are not a real bad idea to include in your dress --- or the dress of your keris. It is not unusual, even in very high quality hilts, to see natural gemstones combined with pastes, in order to achieve the desired effect. From memory, I think Miguel Covarrubias mentions this.

28th September 2010, 02:41 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,125	Welcome to the forum Baatar. I hope Alan's explanation has helped you in your further understanding of Balinese dress choices. If you spend some time using the search function you will no doubt find numerous discussions on the supernatural nature of keris. It is an aspect which has always fascinated me as well, though it is one that is difficult to have any real and meaningful discussion about in the space of an open forum. Stories are rarely first hand and frankly impossible to verify. From my experience members tend to either disbelieve such lore and feel it distracts from the hardcore discussion of keris or they are true believers who don't find this public place a proper venue for such tales. Still, i always like a good story and find nothing wrong with the telling so if you have some to share feel free to start a thread on the subject.