Keris Betok on Ebay

mykeris · 16th September 2010, 04:33 PM

Loud & clear, David. Rgrds, Mykeris

On the second thought, what is wrong with this keris David? Is it contradicting the standard buda form or fake material or .....somethig else? Some awesome faking samples would be good to see. Pls advise me, thanks in advance.

Rick · 16th September 2010, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mykeris

Loud & clear, David. Rgrds, Mykeris

On the second thought, what is wrong with this keris David? Is it contradicting the standard buda form or fake material or .....somethig else? Some awesome faking samples would be good to see. Pls advise me, thanks in advance.

The problem is that by discussing the whys and hows the Forger is educated right along with the Members .

Alam Shah · 17th September 2010, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

The problem is that by discussing the whys and hows the Forger is educated right along with the Members .

Precisely, why some members are reluctant to impart knowledge or indicators regarding identifying forgeries in an open forum. This type of info is best kept in private discussions..

I was told that part of the reason why a keris betok, buda might be highly sought after, may be due to its supposedly having properties suitable to be used as a 'keris tindih', sort of a 'suppressant' keris to keep negative vibes from other kerises in check. Whether it is true or not, that's another story..

A. G. Maisey · 17th September 2010, 04:02 AM

Like many things in the keris belief system, Shahrial, if you believe it, its true.

mykeris · 17th September 2010, 04:22 AM

'big-name people have been fooled, including the biggest, most influential and most knowledgeable.'

Yes, you and I could be fooled too. Note: How sure are you on your budas, Alan? It could be fooled again!

A. G. Maisey · 17th September 2010, 04:52 AM

I bought my first keris buda in about 1970 or 1972.

I started to study them seriously in about 1980.

Apart from experience in handling both genuine and non-genuine KB's I have put together a fairly comprehensive file on KB's, including the indicators for falsification and the indicators for genuine, and the people who are known in the trade for either presenting or creating falsifications of KB's.

Yes, I could be fooled again, but not easily, and not in negatives, but only in positives. What I mean by this is that a KB could be presented to me that I mistook for genuine, when in fact it was not, however, a KB that I identified as not genuine I would be very confident was not genuine.

mykeris · 17th September 2010, 05:19 AM

Noted and Thanks Alan. Well said. Regards, Mykeris.

David · 16th September 2010, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mykeris

Loud & clear, David. Rgrds, Mykeris

On the second thought, what is wrong with this keris David? Is it contradicting the standard buda form or fake material or .....somethig else? Some awesome faking samples would be good to see. Pls advise me, thanks in advance.

I can only refer you back to my original answer to you in post #2.
I have made no claims in regards to the authenticity of this particular keris buda, nor am i about to, so i have nothing to advise you on.

A. G. Maisey · 16th September 2010, 11:43 PM

Precisely Rick.

I know of one family in East Jawa that has been producing intentional forgeries of fake keris buda and other archaic forms, for at least thirty years. I say "family" because it was originally one man, but I have heard that his son began working with the father a couple of years ago.

These forgeries are excellent, and I have been stung once.

Going back a few years keris buda were not particularly valuable and not particularly sought after, however, that is now very, very different. A good, genuine keris buda will bring a very heavy price indeed. We're not talking small money here, we are talking very serious money. But only for the real thing.

In some areas it is best to keep information to oneself.

Battara · 17th September 2010, 01:52 AM

That is the sad thing. First it was fake katanas on eprey. Then fake Moro kris and gunong (and many are). Now fake older keris. Sad really.....

Rick · 17th September 2010, 02:59 AM

Thank you Alan .

This area is a land best ventured into well armed with true knowledge, not heresay from a public forum .

A. G. Maisey · 17th September 2010, 03:04 AM

Battara, keris that purport to be what they are not have been around forever.

Long before either you or I were born.

Museums and noted, published collections have their share of them.

Its taken me most of my life to reach a point where I'm fairly confident I can pick a pretender, but let me emphasise that "fairly confident" . I can be fooled, exactly the same as virtually all the really well known, big-name people have been fooled, including the biggest, most influential and most knowledgeable.

We need to be pretty careful where keris are concerned. One reason why I will not buy on photos from somebody I do not know. Its hard enough to know what you've got when its in your hand, often almost impossible when its not --- unless you have some prior knowledge or experience.

16th September 2010, 04:33 PM	#1
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	Loud & clear, David. Rgrds, Mykeris On the second thought, what is wrong with this keris David? Is it contradicting the standard buda form or fake material or .....somethig else? Some awesome faking samples would be good to see. Pls advise me, thanks in advance. Last edited by mykeris; 16th September 2010 at 05:00 PM.

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17th September 2010, 04:02 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	Like many things in the keris belief system, Shahrial, if you believe it, its true.

17th September 2010, 04:22 AM	#5
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	'big-name people have been fooled, including the biggest, most influential and most knowledgeable.' Yes, you and I could be fooled too. Note: How sure are you on your budas, Alan? It could be fooled again!

17th September 2010, 04:52 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	I bought my first keris buda in about 1970 or 1972. I started to study them seriously in about 1980. Apart from experience in handling both genuine and non-genuine KB's I have put together a fairly comprehensive file on KB's, including the indicators for falsification and the indicators for genuine, and the people who are known in the trade for either presenting or creating falsifications of KB's. Yes, I could be fooled again, but not easily, and not in negatives, but only in positives. What I mean by this is that a KB could be presented to me that I mistook for genuine, when in fact it was not, however, a KB that I identified as not genuine I would be very confident was not genuine.

17th September 2010, 05:19 AM	#7
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	Noted and Thanks Alan. Well said. Regards, Mykeris.

16th September 2010, 11:43 PM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	Precisely Rick. I know of one family in East Jawa that has been producing intentional forgeries of fake keris buda and other archaic forms, for at least thirty years. I say "family" because it was originally one man, but I have heard that his son began working with the father a couple of years ago. These forgeries are excellent, and I have been stung once. Going back a few years keris buda were not particularly valuable and not particularly sought after, however, that is now very, very different. A good, genuine keris buda will bring a very heavy price indeed. We're not talking small money here, we are talking very serious money. But only for the real thing. In some areas it is best to keep information to oneself.

17th September 2010, 01:52 AM	#10
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	That is the sad thing. First it was fake katanas on eprey. Then fake Moro kris and gunong (and many are). Now fake older keris. Sad really.....

17th September 2010, 02:59 AM	#11
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Thank you Alan . This area is a land best ventured into well armed with true knowledge, not heresay from a public forum .

17th September 2010, 03:04 AM	#12
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	Battara, keris that purport to be what they are not have been around forever. Long before either you or I were born. Museums and noted, published collections have their share of them. Its taken me most of my life to reach a point where I'm fairly confident I can pick a pretender, but let me emphasise that "fairly confident" . I can be fooled, exactly the same as virtually all the really well known, big-name people have been fooled, including the biggest, most influential and most knowledgeable. We need to be pretty careful where keris are concerned. One reason why I will not buy on photos from somebody I do not know. Its hard enough to know what you've got when its in your hand, often almost impossible when its not --- unless you have some prior knowledge or experience.