Out of the box ways to clean rust?

Neo · 18th May 2010, 07:35 AM

Hi Everyone,

I have rust problem at funky places on my krisses.
The thing is, most of them still have nice stains so I prefer not to wash and reapply warangan just to get rid of these rusts.

In one case, I have nasty reddish rust at the pesi. The rest of the blade was cool so it's quite a bad idea to clean the entire kris. What should I do to just clean the pesi?

In another, I have this blade that is estimated to be from Segaluh era. There is rust just at the bottom of the already pretty thin kembang kacang. Another session of rigorous traditional cleansing can break the kembang kacang, so I'm thinking about using non-conventional methods, relying heavily on modern chemicals. Ideas, anyone?

By the way, I'd like to post some image but got no idea how to do that ... The posting image button seems to be asking for some URL instead of attachment.

Rick · 18th May 2010, 04:42 PM

Open the 'manage attachments' box .
Click on the browse button; select a folder with your picture/s .
Click on a picture you wish to upload and hit select in the drop down menu .
After your picture/s have been selected click on upload in the 'manage attachments box .

Please be aware of the size limits or the software will reject the picture as too large .

www.irfanview.com
Has a free simple to use download for photo manipulation .

A. G. Maisey · 19th May 2010, 12:29 AM

If the rust is only on the tang, I'd rub it off with steel wool, any large hard lumps of rust I'd pick off with a sharp tool --- I use a saddler's awl --- then I'd touch it up with cold blue and oil it.

In respect of the Segaluh blade.
A blade needs to be in extremely bad condition not to be able to withstand correct cleaning with fruit juice --- I use pineapple juice. If it still has a kembang kacang, it can't be in too bad condition. Daily monitoring during the cleaning process is essential.Traditional cleaning methods are very gentle, not at all harsh if used correctly.

Neo · 19th May 2010, 07:57 AM

Thanks for the reply, guys. It turns out that my IT skill is not as bad as I thought

Here are the pictures. I just acquired this supposedly Segaluh blade in this condition couple months ago and the rust at kembang kacang was already there. The rest of the blade was pretty much okay with very little rust spots in certain parts.

So ... now that we have the image - hopefully it adequately shows the situation - do you guys think this kembang kacang is strong enough for rubbing with lemon or pineapple juice?

If the kembang kacang will survive another session of traditional cleaning, I am considering to have a professional do "the whole package" - from cleaning to re-staining with warangan. I don't know how to *correctly* perform traditional cleaning methods, so I prefer to just leave it to the expert if cleaning is the way to go.

Mr. Maisey, sorry for the basic question, but what is cold blue? Is it available in Indonesia - or, could you recommend another brand that is available here?

kai · 19th May 2010, 09:10 AM

I agree that local action should do for the tang. Try a good mineral oil for the bit of rust between pesi and gonjo and utilize a wooden toothpick and brush to clean the crevices.

Based on the bold pamor alone, I don't think this is a Segaluh blade. Can we have a pic of the whole blade, please?

IMHO the kembang kacang is in fair shape and will withstand gentle cleaning with no problem. I'd try to clean off the limited rust first rather than giving the whole blade a wash.

In a dry climate, even "active" red rust can be stable and may not progress - a conservative strategy may be ok if you can make sure that humidity won't hit such a blade (warm humid air meeting a colder blade indoors is the most likely culprit). Keep the blade well oiled though - "dry" red rust is not a good sign.

Regards,
Kai

A. G. Maisey · 19th May 2010, 09:40 AM

From what I can see of it, this blade does not look too bad at all.

Use a needle or an awl to pick the rust away, for the very small areas involved I wouldn't even use the cold blue, just a good drench with WD40 and then the usual keris oil.

I doubt that this blade needs a full clean and stain, but if it did, I would not hesitate to either do it myself or have it done commercially.

Storage in a plastic sleeve will help prevent further rusting. If you're in Indonesia, go to your local toko plastik and buy some of the plastic sleeve that is used to put snack foods in to sell in the market.Make sure its wide enough to take the gonjo.

I have preserved the original stain on a couple of Bali blades by using magnification and a needle to go over the entire blade and pick rust out of the pits and irregularities on a blade. In each case the job took about 2 or 3 months, working nights, and when I felt like it.

Cold blue may not be available in Indonesia. It is used on firearms to touch up small areas where the hot blue has worn away.

Neo · 19th May 2010, 04:29 PM

I think this is enough information to get me started. Just went to local grocery store and bought some lemon. They're out of steel wools.

I will use steel wool and WD-40 on the one with the pesi rust, and if that doesn't work I would proceed with using the lemon juice to whiten the pesi. Mr. Maisey is right, neither Ace Hardware nor Hypermart has any Cold Blue. But I guess some decent oil coating and telfon tape covering will protect the bare iron inside the ukiran for a pretty long period of time.

As for the one with some rust at the kembang kacang, I will use a needle, some WD-40, and TONS of patience ...

Kai: Sorry no additional picture for the moment (still working on some technical problems), but meanwhile you can look at this URL:
http://keris.fotopic.net/c1048837.html
Could you please explain what you meant by bold pamor? Don't you think it's the pamor is somewhat similar to the one in this URL? By the way, the sor soran part of my keris is pretty wide, quite similar to the one depicted in this URL.

kai · 23rd May 2010, 09:20 AM

Hello Neo,

Quote:

Could you please explain what you meant by bold pamor?

I was mainly referring to the high contrast between the pamor layers. Also, the pamor is tightly stacked (many layers) and pretty active.

Quote:

Don't you think it's the pamor is somewhat similar to the one in this URL?

I get your point but also see a few differences; would definitely like to see more pics for comparision before forming an unqualified opinion...

Quote:

By the way, the sor soran part of my keris is pretty wide, quite similar to the one depicted in this URL.

Yes, I see. Is this enough to base a Segaluh reference on? I admit that I keep being mystified about the tanguh game

- on one hand it seems to attempt to establish an origin in a specific time period (or even narrow it down to a specific empu) and on the other hand there seems to quite a bit of leeway possibly also including later works done in the correct style and utilizing metals of suitable characteristics... Much to learn!

Regards,
Kai

18th May 2010, 07:35 AM	#1
Neo Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 59	Out of the box ways to clean rust? Hi Everyone, I have rust problem at funky places on my krisses. The thing is, most of them still have nice stains so I prefer not to wash and reapply warangan just to get rid of these rusts. In one case, I have nasty reddish rust at the pesi. The rest of the blade was cool so it's quite a bad idea to clean the entire kris. What should I do to just clean the pesi? In another, I have this blade that is estimated to be from Segaluh era. There is rust just at the bottom of the already pretty thin kembang kacang. Another session of rigorous traditional cleansing can break the kembang kacang, so I'm thinking about using non-conventional methods, relying heavily on modern chemicals. Ideas, anyone? By the way, I'd like to post some image but got no idea how to do that ... The posting image button seems to be asking for some URL instead of attachment.

18th May 2010, 04:42 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Pictures Open the 'manage attachments' box . Click on the browse button; select a folder with your picture/s . Click on a picture you wish to upload and hit select in the drop down menu . After your picture/s have been selected click on upload in the 'manage attachments box . Please be aware of the size limits or the software will reject the picture as too large . www.irfanview.com Has a free simple to use download for photo manipulation .

19th May 2010, 07:57 AM	#4
Neo Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 59	Pictures Thanks for the reply, guys. It turns out that my IT skill is not as bad as I thought Here are the pictures. I just acquired this supposedly Segaluh blade in this condition couple months ago and the rust at kembang kacang was already there. The rest of the blade was pretty much okay with very little rust spots in certain parts. So ... now that we have the image - hopefully it adequately shows the situation - do you guys think this kembang kacang is strong enough for rubbing with lemon or pineapple juice? If the kembang kacang will survive another session of traditional cleaning, I am considering to have a professional do "the whole package" - from cleaning to re-staining with warangan. I don't know how to correctly perform traditional cleaning methods, so I prefer to just leave it to the expert if cleaning is the way to go. Mr. Maisey, sorry for the basic question, but what is cold blue? Is it available in Indonesia - or, could you recommend another brand that is available here? Attached Images Last edited by Neo; 19th May 2010 at 08:14 AM.

19th May 2010, 04:29 PM	#7
Neo Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 59	Thank you!! :) I think this is enough information to get me started. Just went to local grocery store and bought some lemon. They're out of steel wools. I will use steel wool and WD-40 on the one with the pesi rust, and if that doesn't work I would proceed with using the lemon juice to whiten the pesi. Mr. Maisey is right, neither Ace Hardware nor Hypermart has any Cold Blue. But I guess some decent oil coating and telfon tape covering will protect the bare iron inside the ukiran for a pretty long period of time. As for the one with some rust at the kembang kacang, I will use a needle, some WD-40, and TONS of patience ... Kai: Sorry no additional picture for the moment (still working on some technical problems), but meanwhile you can look at this URL: http://keris.fotopic.net/c1048837.html Could you please explain what you meant by bold pamor? Don't you think it's the pamor is somewhat similar to the one in this URL? By the way, the sor soran part of my keris is pretty wide, quite similar to the one depicted in this URL.

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19th May 2010, 12:29 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	If the rust is only on the tang, I'd rub it off with steel wool, any large hard lumps of rust I'd pick off with a sharp tool --- I use a saddler's awl --- then I'd touch it up with cold blue and oil it. In respect of the Segaluh blade. A blade needs to be in extremely bad condition not to be able to withstand correct cleaning with fruit juice --- I use pineapple juice. If it still has a kembang kacang, it can't be in too bad condition. Daily monitoring during the cleaning process is essential.Traditional cleaning methods are very gentle, not at all harsh if used correctly.

19th May 2010, 09:10 AM	#5
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	I agree that local action should do for the tang. Try a good mineral oil for the bit of rust between pesi and gonjo and utilize a wooden toothpick and brush to clean the crevices. Based on the bold pamor alone, I don't think this is a Segaluh blade. Can we have a pic of the whole blade, please? IMHO the kembang kacang is in fair shape and will withstand gentle cleaning with no problem. I'd try to clean off the limited rust first rather than giving the whole blade a wash. In a dry climate, even "active" red rust can be stable and may not progress - a conservative strategy may be ok if you can make sure that humidity won't hit such a blade (warm humid air meeting a colder blade indoors is the most likely culprit). Keep the blade well oiled though - "dry" red rust is not a good sign. Regards, Kai

19th May 2010, 09:40 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	From what I can see of it, this blade does not look too bad at all. Use a needle or an awl to pick the rust away, for the very small areas involved I wouldn't even use the cold blue, just a good drench with WD40 and then the usual keris oil. I doubt that this blade needs a full clean and stain, but if it did, I would not hesitate to either do it myself or have it done commercially. Storage in a plastic sleeve will help prevent further rusting. If you're in Indonesia, go to your local toko plastik and buy some of the plastic sleeve that is used to put snack foods in to sell in the market.Make sure its wide enough to take the gonjo. I have preserved the original stain on a couple of Bali blades by using magnification and a needle to go over the entire blade and pick rust out of the pits and irregularities on a blade. In each case the job took about 2 or 3 months, working nights, and when I felt like it. Cold blue may not be available in Indonesia. It is used on firearms to touch up small areas where the hot blue has worn away.