Interesting big sized javanese keris

Gustav · 23rd April 2010, 11:37 AM

4) the most disturbing is the loss of material at the upper part of wadidang;

5) at two places (one on each side, both times inner curvature) the pamor material not perfectly covering slorok.

6) on one side (kembang kacang to wright when held in the hand) the sogokan and tikel alis are better cut, with a good drive, on the other (the common side, kembang kacang to left) the sogokan are a little bit stiff, to even in the width, the lis at the end of tikel alis a little bit blurred.

Gustav · 23rd April 2010, 11:41 AM

The blade;

Gustav · 23rd April 2010, 11:48 AM

A nice East Javanese hilt, the "nose" is partially broken. It has an interesting "shadow" on one side, may be it could be called "pelet wayang"?

The patra's were full till surface with old hardened oil & dirt.

Gustav · 23rd April 2010, 11:53 AM

Wrongko seems to be original (there is a damage at the gandhik side, but all other inner sides are well patinated). It has a nice wood grain, has been broken an glued together.

Pesi is substantial, appropriate to the blade.

This was my attempt to do a "documentation" of a keris, what I see when I look at it "technically".

Regarding this keris I have some questions. Could we call it an East Javanese keris? What are the features typical for an East Javanese keris? Are the blades also in 18. and 19. cent. more substantial then Central Javanese? What is known about size as a rank indicator for the wearer?

Sajen · 23rd April 2010, 01:51 PM

Hello Gustav,

interesting keris. What come direkt in my mind by you description is what Alan G. Maisey write in a other thread some time ago:
Sajen, its an old keris, and its not a bad keris. Not all keris are masterworks of the art. This is a good, solid, representative keris of its type, personally, I like it.

My own collection is the product of more than 50 years of collecting, I do have some very exceptional pieces in that collection, but I also have a lot of keris that are far, very far, from perfect, and if I consider those keris with which I would not part, most of the keris in this category are the very imperfect ones that I feel a bond with, rather than the princely pieces adorned in gold.

When you buy keris, it is perhaps best to choose those keris that you personally like, and think you might be able to feel something for, rather than a piece of perfection that leaves you cold.If you can find the aesthetically beautiful keris, and you feel something for it as well, that's when you've hit the jackpot.

Wrongko seems to be Kemuning wood. My feeling is the same as yours, I think it is a east javanese keris.

Regards,

Detlef

Marcokeris · 23rd April 2010, 02:34 PM

Hallo gustav
Your keris seems very nice and old.
Surely wrongko (i think kemuning too or... trembalù) is old
Hit could be Timoho (is the "shadow" natural?)
Also I think east Jawa

Gustav · 23rd April 2010, 03:12 PM

Thank you, Detlef and Marco, for responses.

Alan is absolutely wright.

The "shadow" is a little bit of mysterium for me. It seems to be the same piece of wood, there is nothing glued, yet the line between both colours is very clear, the black part very homogenous. This line goes trough both patra's and it seems, regarding the carvings, there is no work with colour or something else. A spot of this black colour appears also on the bungkul at other, bright side.

Sarung (or the remains of it) seems to be East Javanese, the blade also. The problem is, my only experience regarding this subject are few books, nothing more. In Jensen's book some of the keris are attributed to Bantem, some to East Jawa, and it seems to me, he's point wasn't the blade characteristics.

There must be similarities, becouse both styles are coming from Mojopahit, but what are the differences?

Also I have very little information about East Java historically and culturally.

Jean · 24th April 2010, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

Hallo gustav
Your keris seems very nice and old.
Surely wrongko (i think kemuning too or... trembalù) is old
Hit could be Timoho (is the "shadow" natural?)
Also I think east Jawa

Hello Gustav,
As Marco suggests, did you try to file a corner of the black spot on the hilt for ensuring that it is original and not dyed?
Best regards
Jean

23rd April 2010, 11:37 AM	#1
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,275	4) the most disturbing is the loss of material at the upper part of wadidang; 5) at two places (one on each side, both times inner curvature) the pamor material not perfectly covering slorok. 6) on one side (kembang kacang to wright when held in the hand) the sogokan and tikel alis are better cut, with a good drive, on the other (the common side, kembang kacang to left) the sogokan are a little bit stiff, to even in the width, the lis at the end of tikel alis a little bit blurred. Attached Images Last edited by Gustav; 23rd April 2010 at 12:26 PM.

23rd April 2010, 11:41 AM	#2
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,275	The blade; Attached Images

23rd April 2010, 11:48 AM	#3
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,275	A nice East Javanese hilt, the "nose" is partially broken. It has an interesting "shadow" on one side, may be it could be called "pelet wayang"? The patra's were full till surface with old hardened oil & dirt. Attached Images

23rd April 2010, 11:53 AM	#4
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,275	Wrongko seems to be original (there is a damage at the gandhik side, but all other inner sides are well patinated). It has a nice wood grain, has been broken an glued together. Pesi is substantial, appropriate to the blade. This was my attempt to do a "documentation" of a keris, what I see when I look at it "technically". Regarding this keris I have some questions. Could we call it an East Javanese keris? What are the features typical for an East Javanese keris? Are the blades also in 18. and 19. cent. more substantial then Central Javanese? What is known about size as a rank indicator for the wearer? Attached Images Last edited by Gustav; 23rd April 2010 at 12:29 PM.

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23rd April 2010, 01:51 PM	#5
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,193	Hello Gustav, interesting keris. What come direkt in my mind by you description is what Alan G. Maisey write in a other thread some time ago: Sajen, its an old keris, and its not a bad keris. Not all keris are masterworks of the art. This is a good, solid, representative keris of its type, personally, I like it. My own collection is the product of more than 50 years of collecting, I do have some very exceptional pieces in that collection, but I also have a lot of keris that are far, very far, from perfect, and if I consider those keris with which I would not part, most of the keris in this category are the very imperfect ones that I feel a bond with, rather than the princely pieces adorned in gold. When you buy keris, it is perhaps best to choose those keris that you personally like, and think you might be able to feel something for, rather than a piece of perfection that leaves you cold.If you can find the aesthetically beautiful keris, and you feel something for it as well, that's when you've hit the jackpot. Wrongko seems to be Kemuning wood. My feeling is the same as yours, I think it is a east javanese keris. Regards, Detlef

23rd April 2010, 02:34 PM	#6
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Hallo gustav Your keris seems very nice and old. Surely wrongko (i think kemuning too or... trembalù) is old Hit could be Timoho (is the "shadow" natural?) Also I think east Jawa

23rd April 2010, 03:12 PM	#7
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,275	Thank you, Detlef and Marco, for responses. Alan is absolutely wright. The "shadow" is a little bit of mysterium for me. It seems to be the same piece of wood, there is nothing glued, yet the line between both colours is very clear, the black part very homogenous. This line goes trough both patra's and it seems, regarding the carvings, there is no work with colour or something else. A spot of this black colour appears also on the bungkul at other, bright side. Sarung (or the remains of it) seems to be East Javanese, the blade also. The problem is, my only experience regarding this subject are few books, nothing more. In Jensen's book some of the keris are attributed to Bantem, some to East Jawa, and it seems to me, he's point wasn't the blade characteristics. There must be similarities, becouse both styles are coming from Mojopahit, but what are the differences? Also I have very little information about East Java historically and culturally.