Raksasa

A. G. Maisey · 11th February 2008, 06:35 PM

You have touched exactly the point I was making MichaeL:- yes, your hilt is "in between", as are a very large number of other Madura hilts; they have the pawakan of one type, but include characteristics of other types, so when we classify, we need to make a decision which way we're going to jump. I don't know---maybe a certified ahli keris from Madura might classify in another way, and have very definite indicators that allow him to place things precisely in each little pigeonhole.As I indicated above:- I find the whole classification thing----which I think of as "the name game"--- to be a bit stupid. Yeah, when we have major forms, such as a Surakarta gayaman warangka, we can give it a definite name---at least in the broad classification--- without difficulty, but when we have minor forms, especially with variation, I think it is more than a little presumptuous, possibly even arrogant, to give a classification, when we do not really know sufficient to do so.Yeah, it can make for good conversation, or interesting discussion, but I do not believe that it contributes greatly to our bank of knowledge.When we use Rahardjo as our reference, we should remember that this gentleman is a collector from, I think, Jogja. Maybe he is quoting accurate Madura or other terms, maybe he is quoting terms that are current within his own circle, maybe he is making things up.There has been a fair bit of invention and half truths in Indonesian keris literature over the years.

Kai, denatured antler is simply antler with the rough bark taken off to reveal the white inner material.It looks very much like bone, but has a different grain structure.It is done to create a material suitable for carving.

11th February 2008, 06:35 PM	#39
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	You have touched exactly the point I was making MichaeL:- yes, your hilt is "in between", as are a very large number of other Madura hilts; they have the pawakan of one type, but include characteristics of other types, so when we classify, we need to make a decision which way we're going to jump. I don't know---maybe a certified ahli keris from Madura might classify in another way, and have very definite indicators that allow him to place things precisely in each little pigeonhole.As I indicated above:- I find the whole classification thing----which I think of as "the name game"--- to be a bit stupid. Yeah, when we have major forms, such as a Surakarta gayaman warangka, we can give it a definite name---at least in the broad classification--- without difficulty, but when we have minor forms, especially with variation, I think it is more than a little presumptuous, possibly even arrogant, to give a classification, when we do not really know sufficient to do so.Yeah, it can make for good conversation, or interesting discussion, but I do not believe that it contributes greatly to our bank of knowledge.When we use Rahardjo as our reference, we should remember that this gentleman is a collector from, I think, Jogja. Maybe he is quoting accurate Madura or other terms, maybe he is quoting terms that are current within his own circle, maybe he is making things up.There has been a fair bit of invention and half truths in Indonesian keris literature over the years. Kai, denatured antler is simply antler with the rough bark taken off to reveal the white inner material.It looks very much like bone, but has a different grain structure.It is done to create a material suitable for carving.