Faceted Tips on Chinese Swords? (Split from HOS Catalogue thread)

[tsubame1]

Whew, I belived this topic was deleted and me banned again ...

Originally Posted by josh stout

Thomas Chen's website describes the Tang and Sui swords in Japanese collections as probably from China, but they also could have been polished in a Japanese style.

They still have the original shape and have been preserved extremely well,
near to mint conditions. The "seven stars" one has very light carving on
them showing, among other things, a constellation. Japanese polishing
consists in using abrasive stones that would have deleted the carvings even
in a much lighter polishing then the one needed to change the point
geometry (you have to maintain the plans geometries and proportions so
EVERYTHING on the blade must be polished in a deep restoration.)
Not to say that the japaneses had no reasons in changing that shape.
It has to be noted, too, that the japaneses (that are quiet proud of their
nationality) never denied this provenance even during the mad '30s
in wich nationalism and xenophobia reached the top.

Originally Posted by josh stout

One of the characteristics of Chinese swords is that many styles of many periods can be found coexisting, but they all seem to have lost the faceted tip if they ever had one. Such tips are not in my understanding found on typical swords of the Qing, Ming, Yuan or Song dynasties. They are certainly not visible in art from those periods that I have examined, and they are not found on antique examples done in those styles. (i.e. not necessarily dated to a particular dynasty but in the style of the dynasty).

Checked for Sui and nearby ? I'm sorry to be too specialized in japanese
weaponry to have not other examples to show (in effect I've another one
with mounting but is still treasured in Japan so counts as the other ones..)

Originally Posted by josh stout

I am not at all saying that such tips could not have existed. There are records of many Japanese blades ending up in China, and I have seen pictures of some possible examples that do not show faceted tips. So clearly Japanese blades would have had them, but maybe they lost their faceting?

As per the japanese blades in China losing the yokote :
there are two explanations for this : improper polishing that deleted the
Yokote or simply a slightly different blade geometry called "Shobu Zukuri".
A faceted tip is harder to make. Most of the blades sold to China were
the so-called kazuuchimono, mass produced blades still very effective but
not of the same quality of the good ones. Such inferior blades were
widely made for large armies in japan too during certain periods in which
enormous armies had to be supplied, and a shobuzukuri (without faceted tip) cutting blade was easier to make, hence, I believe, the absence of it on some of the chinese examples. Of course, Shobuzukuri blades were made
even in high quality standards, but you hardly provide potential enemy with
the best of your production.

I would like to be advised by if you find something that can support or
even deny this theory as it is of great importance to me.
A sources showing chinese blade with this type of point would be a
*great* contribution to my studies. I'll make the same, no matter what
comes out, with you.