Very Interesting Indian sword for discussion

Jim McDougall · 20th February 2005, 06:49 PM

This is outstanding discourse on this beautiful sabre, and excellent work with all the references cited and noted! It's always great to see observations supported with references as the 'mystery' unfolds. While I can't add much to what has been already clearly determined, I agree with the consensus of this being a southern form of weapon, and with Tipu-esque characteristics. The trefoil or fluer-de-lis form quillon terminals are interesting, and I would offer may be associated with Tipu and his father's close associations with the French and their influences militarily. From another perspective, I cannot help but notice the similarity of these fluerets to the upper part of the hilt of the 'anthropomorphic ' form of the chilanum ( Elgood "Hindu Arms & Ritual", p.175, #16.28 ) which is from Deccani sultanate early 17th c. possibly earlier.

Another question concerning the interesting material on the 'duckbill' form on the curled back knuckleguard. In a discussion with a collector some time ago, we were discussing this distinct feature as often occurs on Central Asian edged weapons, such as certain Afghan and other examples. These extremely stylized forms often seemed to resemble either nagan or dragon type figures, at that point not considering the 'duck' possibility, and he suggested these were something he called 'ice bird' but could not distinguish further.
Could anyone elaborate on what type bird this might be and significance on weapons there?

Best regards,
Jim

Radu: just noticed your post citing the swan, could this be what the reference to ice-bird might be?

20th February 2005, 06:49 PM	#9
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,292	This is outstanding discourse on this beautiful sabre, and excellent work with all the references cited and noted! It's always great to see observations supported with references as the 'mystery' unfolds. While I can't add much to what has been already clearly determined, I agree with the consensus of this being a southern form of weapon, and with Tipu-esque characteristics. The trefoil or fluer-de-lis form quillon terminals are interesting, and I would offer may be associated with Tipu and his father's close associations with the French and their influences militarily. From another perspective, I cannot help but notice the similarity of these fluerets to the upper part of the hilt of the 'anthropomorphic ' form of the chilanum ( Elgood "Hindu Arms & Ritual", p.175, #16.28 ) which is from Deccani sultanate early 17th c. possibly earlier. Another question concerning the interesting material on the 'duckbill' form on the curled back knuckleguard. In a discussion with a collector some time ago, we were discussing this distinct feature as often occurs on Central Asian edged weapons, such as certain Afghan and other examples. These extremely stylized forms often seemed to resemble either nagan or dragon type figures, at that point not considering the 'duck' possibility, and he suggested these were something he called 'ice bird' but could not distinguish further. Could anyone elaborate on what type bird this might be and significance on weapons there? Best regards, Jim Radu: just noticed your post citing the swan, could this be what the reference to ice-bird might be?