Degradation of important keris over time

A. G. Maisey · 16th June 2022, 01:09 PM

Jaga asked a couple of questions that in the asking might seem to be reasonably straight forward, but in the answering become impossible.

Not all keris are equal.

The belief systems, in which the keris exists as a general idea, vary.

The cultures & societies in which the keris as a physical object can be found do not have a consistency that will permit one all inclusive understanding.

This is one of the reasons why I have very little interest in keris belief systems that have arisen in places other than Jawa & Bali.

Even when our consideration is narrowed to just these two places we find that the general beliefs attached to the keris in these two places vary considerably. In one place, Jawa, we need to consider at least two very broad sets of parameters, one that is applicable to Jawa prior to the incursion of Islam, & in particular the influence of Sufic ideas, and a different set of parameters that has developed under Islam.

If we then consider Bali we find that there is the division of the pre-Puputan paradigm and the post-Puputan paradigm.

We find varying understandings in both Bali & Jawa according to both time and precise geographic location.

I would liken this situation as being on the outside of a house with many rooms, we can wander around the house and look in through the windows, and at any one time, in any one room, we can see people doing things and hear them discussing things, but what we see and hear lacks an overall consistency, depending upon what time of day it might be and what window we are looking through.

Now, if we are fortunate enough to find an open door that permits us to enter one of these rooms, we might be able to engage with some of the people in the room, and when we do, we might find that what we thought we understood when we were standing outside looking in through the window, was not at all relevant to the ideas of the inhabitants of that room.

I am inclined to totally disregard the jiggery-pokery associated with markets, commercialism and spurious claims. All this sort of thing has precious little to do with the socio-cultural paradigm in which the keris exists for those who are educated in the belief systems which support the keris.

Accordingly, for me, there is no one way of defining the understandings of culturally aware people when those people consider the being of any one specific keris in any part of time/space.

The only rational answer is that everything will always vary.

16th June 2022, 01:09 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Jaga asked a couple of questions that in the asking might seem to be reasonably straight forward, but in the answering become impossible. Not all keris are equal. The belief systems, in which the keris exists as a general idea, vary. The cultures & societies in which the keris as a physical object can be found do not have a consistency that will permit one all inclusive understanding. This is one of the reasons why I have very little interest in keris belief systems that have arisen in places other than Jawa & Bali. Even when our consideration is narrowed to just these two places we find that the general beliefs attached to the keris in these two places vary considerably. In one place, Jawa, we need to consider at least two very broad sets of parameters, one that is applicable to Jawa prior to the incursion of Islam, & in particular the influence of Sufic ideas, and a different set of parameters that has developed under Islam. If we then consider Bali we find that there is the division of the pre-Puputan paradigm and the post-Puputan paradigm. We find varying understandings in both Bali & Jawa according to both time and precise geographic location. I would liken this situation as being on the outside of a house with many rooms, we can wander around the house and look in through the windows, and at any one time, in any one room, we can see people doing things and hear them discussing things, but what we see and hear lacks an overall consistency, depending upon what time of day it might be and what window we are looking through. Now, if we are fortunate enough to find an open door that permits us to enter one of these rooms, we might be able to engage with some of the people in the room, and when we do, we might find that what we thought we understood when we were standing outside looking in through the window, was not at all relevant to the ideas of the inhabitants of that room. I am inclined to totally disregard the jiggery-pokery associated with markets, commercialism and spurious claims. All this sort of thing has precious little to do with the socio-cultural paradigm in which the keris exists for those who are educated in the belief systems which support the keris. Accordingly, for me, there is no one way of defining the understandings of culturally aware people when those people consider the being of any one specific keris in any part of time/space. The only rational answer is that everything will always vary.