Twist core budiak

mross · 30th October 2009, 08:29 PM

This ended on ebay awhile ago;

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWNX:IT

Thoughts, comments?

Rick · 30th October 2009, 09:01 PM

Not to contradict the Seller, but I see plenty of pits .

Judging from the picture the blade looks heavily cleaned .

Did you win this ?

BTW.......
Did I mention how much I hate eBay's new picture system ?

Sajen · 30th October 2009, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

BTW.......
Did I mention how much I hate eBay's new picture system ?

You are not alone!

Sajen · 30th October 2009, 10:11 PM

Nice Budiak, ok it's pitted and cleaned but nice. But also expensive.

sajen

Rick · 31st October 2009, 02:36 AM

My impression also Sajen .

A. G. Maisey · 31st October 2009, 03:05 AM

Does this type of spear always have such a short tang?

What is the method of use?

Andrew · 31st October 2009, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Not to contradict the Seller, but I see plenty of pits .

Judging from the picture the blade looks heavily cleaned .

Did you win this ?

BTW.......
Did I mention how much I hate eBay's new picture system ?

I just plain hate eBay.

Rick · 31st October 2009, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Does this type of spear always have such a short tang?

What is the method of use?

Yes, for the most part .

I think for spears of this quality stabbing and thrusting .
Pictures of simulated combat in this thread .
Lots of Budiaks shown .
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=budiak

IIRC Spunjer has an example with a thumb rest right up near the ferrule .

Battara · 31st October 2009, 07:02 PM

IT is more a lance than a throwing spear.

A. G. Maisey · 31st October 2009, 09:19 PM

Andrew, I will not go so far as to say I hate Ebay. In fact, I have very little to do with Ebay. However, I will say that there are elements of the Ebay experience that I distinctly dislike.

On the design of this spear head.

To my limited understanding this tang is faulty design.

A spear head that is intended for thrusting should have a tang of sufficient length to allow it to withstand the transverse forces of human body weight. You can see this design feature in spear heads from Jawa and Bali, and also in some European spear heads.

Also, a spear head of this size would require a very big, strong man to use it. Think Big Arni body type.

Considering the superb craftsmanship found in this spear head I am inclined to think it may have been created as a display piece, either purely for display, or for some ceremonial purpose.

Rick · 1st November 2009, 12:18 AM

Often this was dealt with by a heavy brass ferrule of some length reinforced with heavier rings strategically placed .

A. G. Maisey · 1st November 2009, 01:12 PM

Yeah, I can see how a rigid ferrule like that could add a lot of strength.

In the old Javanese fighting spears there was often no ferrule at all, the place of the ferrule was taken by a cord binding, so naturally you needed a nice long tang.

But still, this is pretty solid sort of blade. Stick it on the end of a six foot shaft and I don't reckon you have something that could be moved around quickly by anybody except a very, very strong man.

And a whacking great heavy blade in a spear doesn't really do the job any better than a small light blade.

I think I might be missing something here, because to my mind, something like this has no purpose other than some sort of display.

Spunjer · 1st November 2009, 02:47 PM

it's not as bulky or heavy as you might think. on the average, i've seen kampilans and battle krises heavier that these budiaks. with shaft exceeding 7+ feet, it's actually well balance. this, coupled with a shield, makes a formidable weapon.

Battara · 1st November 2009, 06:01 PM

Spunger is right and there are old pictures of Moros doing war dances with these spears.

A. G. Maisey · 1st November 2009, 09:35 PM

Yeah, I guess you'd have to handle it to really understand. I'm just comparing the apparent mass with what I know, and this spear is certainly different in many ways from what I know to be effective weapon design from a few different places.

Battara · 2nd November 2009, 05:06 AM

My twistcore spear is complete, 8 feet long, and very light.

mross · 3rd November 2009, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Not to contradict the Seller, but I see plenty of pits .

Judging from the picture the blade looks heavily cleaned .

Did you win this ?

BTW.......
Did I mention how much I hate eBay's new picture system ?

Yes, I did win this one. I'll let you know about the pits when I get it. I've been looking for a twist core spear for awhile. So I guess it found me. As to the weight I agree with Battera. They are much faster then you would suspect, and the weight has to be sufficent to make a slash possible.

"Considering the superb craftsmanship found in this spear head I am inclined to think it may have been created as a display piece, either purely for display, or for some ceremonial purpose."

I also have agreement with this and the twist core thing, but that will be another thread.

Rick · 3rd November 2009, 10:30 PM

This is an elegant large fighting spear that probably belonged to someone of rank and was carried by a retainer .

Ceremonial, yes .

These old eyes see what appears to be battle damage on the edges; lots of nicks .

I think it has seen war .

Will you run a Lime over it when it arrives ?

mross · 3rd November 2009, 10:40 PM

You betcha! Which is why I did not care if it had been cleaned, saves me the trouble.

Rick · 3rd November 2009, 10:47 PM

Looking forward to before and after pictures .

Battara · 3rd November 2009, 11:05 PM

I love PI/Moro twistcores - unexpected and artfully done. That is why I own 3 (Bagobo bolo, Sulu kris, spear)

. This is a nice one Mross. Can't wait for good pics.

David · 4th November 2009, 04:51 AM

hmmm....i think i could live with the pits...

mross · 4th November 2009, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

I love PI/Moro twistcores - unexpected and artfully done. That is why I own 3 (Bagobo bolo, Sulu kris, spear)

. This is a nice one Mross. Can't wait for good pics.

Not wanting to hijack my own thread; BUT; Bagobo bolo in twist core??!! Are there any pictures posted in the forum, if not will there be? REALLY BIG HINT

Battara · 5th November 2009, 12:08 AM

Sure. Actually double twist core here is a picture:

30th October 2009, 08:29 PM	#1
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	Twist core budiak This ended on ebay awhile ago; http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWNX:IT Thoughts, comments?

1st November 2009, 12:18 AM	#11
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Often this was dealt with by a heavy brass ferrule of some length reinforced with heavier rings strategically placed . Attached Images Last edited by Rick; 1st November 2009 at 12:29 AM.

3rd November 2009, 10:30 PM	#18
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Agree This is an elegant large fighting spear that probably belonged to someone of rank and was carried by a retainer . Ceremonial, yes . These old eyes see what appears to be battle damage on the edges; lots of nicks . I think it has seen war . Will you run a Lime over it when it arrives ?

5th November 2009, 12:08 AM	#24
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Sure. Actually double twist core here is a picture: Attached Images

30th October 2009, 09:01 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Not to contradict the Seller, but I see plenty of pits . Judging from the picture the blade looks heavily cleaned . Did you win this ? BTW....... Did I mention how much I hate eBay's new picture system ?

30th October 2009, 10:11 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,779	Nice Budiak, ok it's pitted and cleaned but nice. But also expensive. sajen

31st October 2009, 02:36 AM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	My impression also Sajen .

31st October 2009, 03:05 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Does this type of spear always have such a short tang? What is the method of use?

31st October 2009, 07:02 PM	#9
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	IT is more a lance than a throwing spear.

31st October 2009, 09:19 PM	#10
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Andrew, I will not go so far as to say I hate Ebay. In fact, I have very little to do with Ebay. However, I will say that there are elements of the Ebay experience that I distinctly dislike. On the design of this spear head. To my limited understanding this tang is faulty design. A spear head that is intended for thrusting should have a tang of sufficient length to allow it to withstand the transverse forces of human body weight. You can see this design feature in spear heads from Jawa and Bali, and also in some European spear heads. Also, a spear head of this size would require a very big, strong man to use it. Think Big Arni body type. Considering the superb craftsmanship found in this spear head I am inclined to think it may have been created as a display piece, either purely for display, or for some ceremonial purpose.

1st November 2009, 01:12 PM	#12
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Yeah, I can see how a rigid ferrule like that could add a lot of strength. In the old Javanese fighting spears there was often no ferrule at all, the place of the ferrule was taken by a cord binding, so naturally you needed a nice long tang. But still, this is pretty solid sort of blade. Stick it on the end of a six foot shaft and I don't reckon you have something that could be moved around quickly by anybody except a very, very strong man. And a whacking great heavy blade in a spear doesn't really do the job any better than a small light blade. I think I might be missing something here, because to my mind, something like this has no purpose other than some sort of display.

1st November 2009, 02:47 PM	#13
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	it's not as bulky or heavy as you might think. on the average, i've seen kampilans and battle krises heavier that these budiaks. with shaft exceeding 7+ feet, it's actually well balance. this, coupled with a shield, makes a formidable weapon.

1st November 2009, 06:01 PM	#14
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Spunger is right and there are old pictures of Moros doing war dances with these spears.

1st November 2009, 09:35 PM	#15
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Yeah, I guess you'd have to handle it to really understand. I'm just comparing the apparent mass with what I know, and this spear is certainly different in many ways from what I know to be effective weapon design from a few different places.

2nd November 2009, 05:06 AM	#16
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	My twistcore spear is complete, 8 feet long, and very light.

3rd November 2009, 10:40 PM	#19
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	You betcha! Which is why I did not care if it had been cleaned, saves me the trouble.

3rd November 2009, 10:47 PM	#20
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Looking forward to before and after pictures .

3rd November 2009, 11:05 PM	#21
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	I love PI/Moro twistcores - unexpected and artfully done. That is why I own 3 (Bagobo bolo, Sulu kris, spear) . This is a nice one Mross. Can't wait for good pics.

4th November 2009, 04:51 AM	#22
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	hmmm....i think i could live with the pits...