what is it?

ilias · 1st January 2009, 07:54 PM

Hi everyone.Have a nice year.My name Ilias and I am visiting this forum for a long time and I know that that you have huge amount of knowledge.Since now I my visit was only for reading and learn new things.Now I need your help.This is what I bought .Can you please advice me if it is a lance or a spear or what says the inscription on it? If you want better pictures I can get when it comes to my hands.
Thanks in advance.

VANDOO · 2nd January 2009, 05:24 PM

WELCOME TO THE FORUM

A VERY INTERESTING ITEM YOU HAVE IT APPEARS TO HAVE A GOOD OLD PATINA AND SHOWS GOOD WORKMANSHIP. IT IS A BIT OF A PUZZLE AS IT LOOKS TO BE TOO LONG FOR A SPEAR OR LANCE HEAD AND IS LONGER THAN THE BUTT SPIKES I HAVE SEEN ON SPEARS AND LANCE. YOU MIGHT WANT TO ADD THE DIMENSIONS ON IT.
PERHAPS IT IS THE TIP OR BUTT SPIKE FOR A STANDARD OR REGIMENTAL FLAG. I ASSUME THEY WERE USED BY THE ISLAMIC ARMYS AS WELL AS BRITISH, ECT. JUST MY BEST GUESS

PERHAPS A MEMBER WITH MORE KNOWLEGE IN THE FIELD CAN GIVE YOU SOME GOOD INFORMATION AND INTERPRET THE INFORMATION. GOOD LUCK

ilias · 2nd January 2009, 05:40 PM

Thanks Vandoo.
You are right that I must add dimensions.It is approx.132cm.Long enough If you concinder and the saft that must had at the back.

ariel · 2nd January 2009, 07:34 PM

Looks like a spit for shish-kebabs.
Sorry if it sounds humorous or ironic; I did not mean any sarcasm, but that what it looks like to me...

Tim Simmons · 2nd January 2009, 07:56 PM

It looks like the end spike of a big African spear. As it looks like a version of Arabic script I would think it has a present day Sudan origin. It might even be the working end of a human shish kabab thing. It is certainly African could even be from the east side of central Africa, Arab influence reached into the Congo. I think it is really nice just a terrible shame that it is all you have of it.

Yannis · 3rd January 2009, 12:31 AM

Welcome Ilias
Too big, too fancy and lot of patina for sish kebab Ariel.

If Tim says it is African, that is good for me. But someone must translate. As far as I can understand the letters are upside down

Lew · 3rd January 2009, 01:29 AM

It seems much too long for a spike end of a spear. Also it is quite nice and fancy but I don't have a clue.

Lew

Tim Simmons · 3rd January 2009, 12:28 PM

Long spike end of East African spear. I have never seen one with a rectangular section like yours. The horizontal pictures here are of a Western Soudan spear with similar section and work around the socket. I so far have never seen a spear with that type of end spike from this region, does not mean they do not exist. I could see your item as a big awl type of lance. To kabab people with.

ilias · 3rd January 2009, 01:43 PM

Maybe you are right, but I want to refer at a search that I made and I found at Henri Moser book "Orientalische sammlung" edition 1955 a spear from Turkestan that it is almost the same with sort saft at the back.The spear is 103cm long and total length 152 cm.I will try to attach the photo.

ilias · 3rd January 2009, 04:07 PM

These are the images I said before.Do you see any simillarities? That spear is 103cm but there is a similar spear at 123cm and total length 186cm.This one at the photo is 157cm.

1st January 2009, 07:54 PM	#1
ilias Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: GREECE Posts: 73	what is it? Hi everyone.Have a nice year.My name Ilias and I am visiting this forum for a long time and I know that that you have huge amount of knowledge.Since now I my visit was only for reading and learn new things.Now I need your help.This is what I bought .Can you please advice me if it is a lance or a spear or what says the inscription on it? If you want better pictures I can get when it comes to my hands. Thanks in advance. Attached Images

3rd January 2009, 12:28 PM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Long spike end of East African spear. I have never seen one with a rectangular section like yours. The horizontal pictures here are of a Western Soudan spear with similar section and work around the socket. I so far have never seen a spear with that type of end spike from this region, does not mean they do not exist. I could see your item as a big awl type of lance. To kabab people with. Attached Images

3rd January 2009, 04:07 PM	#10
ilias Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: GREECE Posts: 73	These are the images I said before.Do you see any simillarities? That spear is 103cm but there is a similar spear at 123cm and total length 186cm.This one at the photo is 157cm. Attached Images

2nd January 2009, 05:24 PM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	WELCOME TO THE FORUM A VERY INTERESTING ITEM YOU HAVE IT APPEARS TO HAVE A GOOD OLD PATINA AND SHOWS GOOD WORKMANSHIP. IT IS A BIT OF A PUZZLE AS IT LOOKS TO BE TOO LONG FOR A SPEAR OR LANCE HEAD AND IS LONGER THAN THE BUTT SPIKES I HAVE SEEN ON SPEARS AND LANCE. YOU MIGHT WANT TO ADD THE DIMENSIONS ON IT. PERHAPS IT IS THE TIP OR BUTT SPIKE FOR A STANDARD OR REGIMENTAL FLAG. I ASSUME THEY WERE USED BY THE ISLAMIC ARMYS AS WELL AS BRITISH, ECT. JUST MY BEST GUESS PERHAPS A MEMBER WITH MORE KNOWLEGE IN THE FIELD CAN GIVE YOU SOME GOOD INFORMATION AND INTERPRET THE INFORMATION. GOOD LUCK

2nd January 2009, 05:40 PM	#3
ilias Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: GREECE Posts: 73	Thanks Vandoo. You are right that I must add dimensions.It is approx.132cm.Long enough If you concinder and the saft that must had at the back.

2nd January 2009, 07:34 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Looks like a spit for shish-kebabs. Sorry if it sounds humorous or ironic; I did not mean any sarcasm, but that what it looks like to me...

2nd January 2009, 07:56 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	It looks like the end spike of a big African spear. As it looks like a version of Arabic script I would think it has a present day Sudan origin. It might even be the working end of a human shish kabab thing. It is certainly African could even be from the east side of central Africa, Arab influence reached into the Congo. I think it is really nice just a terrible shame that it is all you have of it.

3rd January 2009, 12:31 AM	#6
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	Welcome Ilias Too big, too fancy and lot of patina for sish kebab Ariel. If Tim says it is African, that is good for me. But someone must translate. As far as I can understand the letters are upside down

3rd January 2009, 01:29 AM	#7
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	It seems much too long for a spike end of a spear. Also it is quite nice and fancy but I don't have a clue. Lew

3rd January 2009, 01:43 PM	#9
ilias Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: GREECE Posts: 73	Maybe you are right, but I want to refer at a search that I made and I found at Henri Moser book "Orientalische sammlung" edition 1955 a spear from Turkestan that it is almost the same with sort saft at the back.The spear is 103cm long and total length 152 cm.I will try to attach the photo.