Is there an antique appraisal website you know of?

apolaki · 20th October 2008, 03:28 AM

Does anybody know of any good forums that appraise antiques such as ethnographic weapons and other wares? What are some really good ones that are good for showing your antiques in pictures and presenting them in a forum for evaluation and such... basically I'm asking for a forum similar to this one but broader in range of items for discussion.

Thanks

Jim McDougall · 20th October 2008, 05:30 AM

Hello Apolaki,
On these forums we strictly observe not only avoiding discussion of monetary values and appraisals, but do not discuss items for sale or in active auctions. The appraisal of antique weapons or any such items is not surprisingly a confidential and very personal arrangement. Personally, if I were having something appraised I would not want it to be broadcast worldwide

Our forums our primarily for discussion and learning the history of the items posted, though occasionally many items, typically from ebay, are posted for discussion once the sale is complete.

There are dealers and appraisers who can be reached privately, and we can discuss those privately if you wish.

Thank you for being straightforward with your query.

All best regards,
Jim

apolaki · 20th October 2008, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Hello Apolaki,
On these forums we strictly observe not only avoiding discussion of monetary values and appraisals, but do not discuss items for sale or in active auctions. The appraisal of antique weapons or any such items is not surprisingly a confidential and very personal arrangement. Personally, if I were having something appraised I would not want it to be broadcast worldwide

Our forums our primarily for discussion and learning the history of the items posted, though occasionally many items, typically from ebay, are posted for discussion once the sale is complete.

There are dealers and appraisers who can be reached privately, and we can discuss those privately if you wish.

Thank you for being straightforward with your query.

All best regards,
Jim

Hi Jim,

sorry I did not inform myself of your guidelines. I apologize to you all regarding this question. I really enjoy the historical value gained from reading these discussion threads. I think this question is a personal interest that I still would like to find more info about, but perhaps through personal messaging or email. my apologizes once again.

apolaki!

Jim McDougall · 20th October 2008, 08:02 AM

No problem Apolaki. I have sent you a PM.

Best regards,
Jim

Atlantia · 20th October 2008, 01:55 PM

Hi Apolaki

Just wanted to add:
Ethnographic weapons seem to be bucking the downward trend of collectables and antiques at the moment, and auction websites often seem to realise very good prices for them.
What I think this site allows (which is always better than asking for a valuation) is for collectors to get their items correctly idenitfied (I continue to be truly amazed by the expertise of members here).
If you then decide to sell, you can do a little research based on accurate identification and get a general idea of value, and most importantly you can offer the item with an accurate description if you do decide to sell so all interested parties can easily find it and it should have the best chance of achieving full current market value at auction.

I have sometimes even found that once the members here have idenitifed an item, I find it grows in personal value to me, and I decide to keep it!
There is nothing like hearing about a pieces history to 'bring it to life', and there are always friendly forumites like Jim and many others who are willing to share their expertise and enthusiasm for collecting these pieces.

Regards
Gene

Jens Nordlunde · 20th October 2008, 02:11 PM

In ‘Damaszener Stahl’ by Manfred Sachse, the author, on page 79 and 81 quotes someone called Crivelli, who in 1823 wrote that a good watered blade, in Turkey, could cost from 7-8500 Reichthaler. What is even more interesting is, that he also gives the value of 1 Reichthaler as the value of about 25g silver. Good blades were not only expensive, they were very expensive – another good reason for using them for many generations.

To compare how fast the value of good weapons can drop, on can read what Moser paid for some of his swords – a bottle of snaps. Moser’s collection is now at the Historisches Museum, Bern, Switzerland - but not on exhibition. The weapons were collected from end of 19th century to beginning of 20th century.

Jim McDougall · 20th October 2008, 05:59 PM

Extremely well said Atlantia!!! and thank you for the kind words.
I definitely believe the weapons in thier own way talk to us, and as we understand thier history more, they become more valuable as friends and extremely hard to let go.

Jens, thank you for adding the historical perspective! It is truly amazing how things must have been in collecting in those days, and I had no idea that such prices were realized in those days.

All best regards,
Jim

ariel · 20th October 2008, 06:56 PM

This is all good and well, but we all need some insurance for our collections. To do it, one needs to get a professional third-party valuation.
Don't you think that it might be useful to establish and post a list of recommended professional valuators for our collective use?
Also, is there a common procedure? For example, does one need a personal visit from the "valuator" or would digital pics suffice? What is the customary charge ( +/- of course and subject to private negotiation), but are we talking per piece? Per hour? Per value?
I think that with all the high-brow attitude toward money, practical help might be useful.

Rick · 20th October 2008, 07:27 PM

That's not a bad idea Ariel .

They could be linked from here:
http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/ethlinks.html

Who's good and who's not though ??

Have to vet them somehow .

ariel · 20th October 2008, 07:52 PM

I am sure some of the members are professional valuators themselves.
They know the procedure orders of magnitude better than the rest of us combined.
Perhaps, they can provide an overview; nothing, of course, of personal nature and promotion, but a general outlook: requirements of insurance companies, procedure, choice of valuators, estimates etc.

Atlantia · 20th October 2008, 09:19 PM

Just a couple of quick points gentlemen.
No insurance company I've dealt with will accept digital photgraphs for valuation purposes, they can also be somewhat demanding when accepting the legitimacy of valuers and valuations. This is a minefield area to get into.
Who is liable if a claim is made and the insurance company decides to querey this valuation?
A definate ID of an item should give enough information for anyone to do some searching of sold items on auctions sites etc to get a good idea of current market value without all the inherent problems of subjective valuations.
'For insurance purposes' valuations and 'current market price' are certainly never the same thing.
I agree that any 'valuations service' offered via this site should certainly be entirely separate from it, if for no other reason than to open the forums to such posts may swamp them.

Just my 2-rupees worth!

G.

rand · 20th October 2008, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

In ‘Damaszener Stahl’ by Manfred Sachse, the author, on page 79 and 81 quotes someone called Crivelli, who in 1823 wrote that a good watered blade, in Turkey, could cost from 7-8500 Reichthaler. What is even more interesting is, that he also gives the value of 1 Reichthaler as the value of about 25g silver. Good blades were not only expensive, they were very expensive – another good reason for using them for many generations.

To compare how fast the value of good weapons can drop, on can read what Moser paid for some of his swords – a bottle of snaps. Moser’s collection is now at the Historisches Museum, Bern, Switzerland - but not on exhibition. The weapons were collected from end of 19th century to beginning of 20th century.

From my perspective the value of a sword during the time of use is a valuable clue as to the importance of an object when used. This would make an excellent thread on its own. If we gathered as many references to the weapons value when made or used, that would be an important historical perspective. In Jens vakue refernece it comes out to about $85,000 and certainly a tidey sum. From the few glimmers of cost during use we seem to still be getting bargains.....

Thanks for that info Jens...

rand

Atlantia · 20th October 2008, 09:48 PM

Just a thought, but would a thread specifically about the hows and wheres of insurance valuations for collections etc, be a good idea?
It could be made a sticky but not change the sites policys as they are at the moment?

A. G. Maisey · 21st October 2008, 12:14 AM

I have collected and dealt in keris, and other S.E. Asian edged weaponry for most of my life. I'm 67 years old.

I am not able to give an accurate appraisal or valuation of a keris unless I handle it.

I can give an approximate value span of an item, but unless I handle the item, even the value span I can give from photos will be hedged with qualification.

I know several people who collect and deal in Japanese swords and sword fittings. None of these people will give an appraisal or valuation unless they handle the item to be appraised.

The fee charged by these Japanese orientated people ranges between 5% and 10% of the value they affix.

Possibly the best insurance for any collection is excellent security.

20th October 2008, 03:28 AM	#1
apolaki Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 160	Is there an antique appraisal website you know of? Does anybody know of any good forums that appraise antiques such as ethnographic weapons and other wares? What are some really good ones that are good for showing your antiques in pictures and presenting them in a forum for evaluation and such... basically I'm asking for a forum similar to this one but broader in range of items for discussion. Thanks

20th October 2008, 05:30 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	Hello Apolaki, On these forums we strictly observe not only avoiding discussion of monetary values and appraisals, but do not discuss items for sale or in active auctions. The appraisal of antique weapons or any such items is not surprisingly a confidential and very personal arrangement. Personally, if I were having something appraised I would not want it to be broadcast worldwide Our forums our primarily for discussion and learning the history of the items posted, though occasionally many items, typically from ebay, are posted for discussion once the sale is complete. There are dealers and appraisers who can be reached privately, and we can discuss those privately if you wish. Thank you for being straightforward with your query. All best regards, Jim

20th October 2008, 08:02 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	No problem Apolaki. I have sent you a PM. Best regards, Jim

20th October 2008, 01:55 PM	#5
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Hi Apolaki Just wanted to add: Ethnographic weapons seem to be bucking the downward trend of collectables and antiques at the moment, and auction websites often seem to realise very good prices for them. What I think this site allows (which is always better than asking for a valuation) is for collectors to get their items correctly idenitfied (I continue to be truly amazed by the expertise of members here). If you then decide to sell, you can do a little research based on accurate identification and get a general idea of value, and most importantly you can offer the item with an accurate description if you do decide to sell so all interested parties can easily find it and it should have the best chance of achieving full current market value at auction. I have sometimes even found that once the members here have idenitifed an item, I find it grows in personal value to me, and I decide to keep it! There is nothing like hearing about a pieces history to 'bring it to life', and there are always friendly forumites like Jim and many others who are willing to share their expertise and enthusiasm for collecting these pieces. Regards Gene

20th October 2008, 02:11 PM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	In ‘Damaszener Stahl’ by Manfred Sachse, the author, on page 79 and 81 quotes someone called Crivelli, who in 1823 wrote that a good watered blade, in Turkey, could cost from 7-8500 Reichthaler. What is even more interesting is, that he also gives the value of 1 Reichthaler as the value of about 25g silver. Good blades were not only expensive, they were very expensive – another good reason for using them for many generations. To compare how fast the value of good weapons can drop, on can read what Moser paid for some of his swords – a bottle of snaps. Moser’s collection is now at the Historisches Museum, Bern, Switzerland - but not on exhibition. The weapons were collected from end of 19th century to beginning of 20th century.

20th October 2008, 05:59 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	Extremely well said Atlantia!!! and thank you for the kind words. I definitely believe the weapons in thier own way talk to us, and as we understand thier history more, they become more valuable as friends and extremely hard to let go. Jens, thank you for adding the historical perspective! It is truly amazing how things must have been in collecting in those days, and I had no idea that such prices were realized in those days. All best regards, Jim

20th October 2008, 06:56 PM	#8
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	This is all good and well, but we all need some insurance for our collections. To do it, one needs to get a professional third-party valuation. Don't you think that it might be useful to establish and post a list of recommended professional valuators for our collective use? Also, is there a common procedure? For example, does one need a personal visit from the "valuator" or would digital pics suffice? What is the customary charge ( +/- of course and subject to private negotiation), but are we talking per piece? Per hour? Per value? I think that with all the high-brow attitude toward money, practical help might be useful.

20th October 2008, 07:27 PM	#9
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,294	That's not a bad idea Ariel . They could be linked from here: http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/ethlinks.html Who's good and who's not though ?? Have to vet them somehow .

20th October 2008, 07:52 PM	#10
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I am sure some of the members are professional valuators themselves. They know the procedure orders of magnitude better than the rest of us combined. Perhaps, they can provide an overview; nothing, of course, of personal nature and promotion, but a general outlook: requirements of insurance companies, procedure, choice of valuators, estimates etc.

20th October 2008, 09:19 PM	#11
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Just a couple of quick points gentlemen. No insurance company I've dealt with will accept digital photgraphs for valuation purposes, they can also be somewhat demanding when accepting the legitimacy of valuers and valuations. This is a minefield area to get into. Who is liable if a claim is made and the insurance company decides to querey this valuation? A definate ID of an item should give enough information for anyone to do some searching of sold items on auctions sites etc to get a good idea of current market value without all the inherent problems of subjective valuations. 'For insurance purposes' valuations and 'current market price' are certainly never the same thing. I agree that any 'valuations service' offered via this site should certainly be entirely separate from it, if for no other reason than to open the forums to such posts may swamp them. Just my 2-rupees worth! G.

20th October 2008, 09:48 PM	#13
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Just a thought, but would a thread specifically about the hows and wheres of insurance valuations for collections etc, be a good idea? It could be made a sticky but not change the sites policys as they are at the moment?

21st October 2008, 12:14 AM	#14
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,898	I have collected and dealt in keris, and other S.E. Asian edged weaponry for most of my life. I'm 67 years old. I am not able to give an accurate appraisal or valuation of a keris unless I handle it. I can give an approximate value span of an item, but unless I handle the item, even the value span I can give from photos will be hedged with qualification. I know several people who collect and deal in Japanese swords and sword fittings. None of these people will give an appraisal or valuation unless they handle the item to be appraised. The fee charged by these Japanese orientated people ranges between 5% and 10% of the value they affix. Possibly the best insurance for any collection is excellent security.