A Dinka knobkerrie / spear ??

katana · 15th July 2008, 06:59 PM

This recently finished on eBay, not so certain that this would be very functional ...... duel purpose knobkerrie with spear end ?? I wondered what others thought and whether there are other examples ?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWA:IT&ih=007

Regards David

Lew · 15th July 2008, 07:56 PM

I put a low bid on that one but decided not to go for it. It seems more a status piece than a functional weapon to me.

Lew

katana · 15th July 2008, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

I put a low bid on that one but decided not to go for it. It seems more a status piece than a functional weapon to me.

Lew

Hi Lew,
I'm inclined to agree....either that or a 'fantasy' piece. The spear head would be a hinderance if used as a club, possibly causing harm to the user. The weighted end of the knobkerrie would probably 'unbalance' its handling as a stabbing spear.

My own inclination is that this is a 'made-up' piece, couldn't find a similar example. I think the money paid was excessive...extremely so, if I am right and this is a 'fantasy marriage'.

Regards David

colin henshaw · 15th July 2008, 09:43 PM

I had kept my eye on this piece...and agree that it probably is a made-up object, as it would not really work as a practical weapon. Possibly made-up sometime after the Battle of Omdurman (1898) for sale to the many British soldiers and administrators that would be then in the Sudan. There would of course have been lots of native weapons and bits of weapons around.

tribalarms · 15th July 2008, 10:26 PM

It is a status / ceremonial piece, but not made up. The oldest dated I have seen was from the 1860's, but I have seen some I would say is earlier. They can have a sharp spearbutt protruding from the club, and coins attached to the head. Been a couple on Ebay during the years.

katana · 15th July 2008, 10:42 PM

Hi Tribalarms,
thanks for your input. Would you have any pictures of this type of ceremonial piece? Do you know whether this particular example is Dinka?

Regards David

tribalarms · 15th July 2008, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

Hi Tribalarms,
thanks for your input. Would you have any pictures of this type of ceremonial piece? Do you know whether this particular example is Dinka?

Regards David

I have one. I can picture it at occasion.

Lew · 15th July 2008, 11:58 PM

Anything like this one? No knobkerrie end though.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1872

Lew

katana · 16th July 2008, 06:25 PM

Very nice Lew

Tim Simmons · 17th July 2008, 06:34 PM

I think it is really nice and a practical weapon. If my PC was working and I had some money it would now be mine but you cannot win them all. The spiked knobkerrie is a south Sudan weapon. I need one

.

katana · 17th July 2008, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

I think it is really nice and a practical weapon. ... The spiked knobkerrie is a south Sudan weapon. I need one

.

Hi Tim

,
I think that a 'spike' instead of the spearhead would make this a practical weapon. The spike would not interfere with the grip whilst holding the knobkerrie in 'club mode'. The spearhead, on the other hand, would cause problems in holding it, the 'deft' wrist movements used in attack/defence with a knobkerrie is likely to injure/cut the users forearm as the spearhead is 'cumbersome' , wide and appears once sharpened along its edges. Thats without the imbalance caused by its weight.

Regards David

colin henshaw · 18th July 2008, 01:52 PM

Looking at this piece again... it seems to be assembled from three separate sources. A probably Shilluk, wooden "mushroom" club, a Baggara spearhead and a croc skin and leather combined handle and loop, of the type to be found on Mahdist maces and those Mahdist pseudo-throwing knives.

It is correct that those mushroom clubs occasionally have spear-butt type ends, they are of a similar construction to those found on Shilluk and Dinka spears (and other tribes in Southern Sudan). I have read somewhere (forget exactly where) that these clubs were sometimes stuck into the ground and used as stools.

The handle/loop on this object would be useless as a practical grip, as the spear edge would cut the bearer's hand or wrist.

Some references would be - Christopher Spring's book on African Weapons, Peter Westerdyjk's study on throwing knives and the Pitt-Rivers Museum Southern Sudan website.

Louisblade's pictured weapon looks like a fine quality Somali spearhead.

Regards and apologies for the extended waffle....

tribalarms · 18th July 2008, 11:08 PM

No need to label it as assembled just as it looks impractical. It may still send out the right message to the initiated.

The spiked "spearbutt" mentioned would be protruding from the clubhead. The blade is still present. I know of several, although it is a very rare weapon.

15th July 2008, 06:59 PM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	A Dinka knobkerrie / spear ?? This recently finished on eBay, not so certain that this would be very functional ...... duel purpose knobkerrie with spear end ?? I wondered what others thought and whether there are other examples ? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWA:IT&ih=007 Regards David

15th July 2008, 11:58 PM	#8
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Anything like this one? No knobkerrie end though. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1872 Lew Attached Images

15th July 2008, 07:56 PM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	I put a low bid on that one but decided not to go for it. It seems more a status piece than a functional weapon to me. Lew

15th July 2008, 09:43 PM	#4
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	I had kept my eye on this piece...and agree that it probably is a made-up object, as it would not really work as a practical weapon. Possibly made-up sometime after the Battle of Omdurman (1898) for sale to the many British soldiers and administrators that would be then in the Sudan. There would of course have been lots of native weapons and bits of weapons around.

15th July 2008, 10:26 PM	#5
tribalarms Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 26	It is a status / ceremonial piece, but not made up. The oldest dated I have seen was from the 1860's, but I have seen some I would say is earlier. They can have a sharp spearbutt protruding from the club, and coins attached to the head. Been a couple on Ebay during the years.

15th July 2008, 10:42 PM	#6
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Tribalarms, thanks for your input. Would you have any pictures of this type of ceremonial piece? Do you know whether this particular example is Dinka? Regards David

16th July 2008, 06:25 PM	#9
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Very nice Lew

17th July 2008, 06:34 PM	#10
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	I think it is really nice and a practical weapon. If my PC was working and I had some money it would now be mine but you cannot win them all. The spiked knobkerrie is a south Sudan weapon. I need one .

18th July 2008, 01:52 PM	#12
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	Looking at this piece again... it seems to be assembled from three separate sources. A probably Shilluk, wooden "mushroom" club, a Baggara spearhead and a croc skin and leather combined handle and loop, of the type to be found on Mahdist maces and those Mahdist pseudo-throwing knives. It is correct that those mushroom clubs occasionally have spear-butt type ends, they are of a similar construction to those found on Shilluk and Dinka spears (and other tribes in Southern Sudan). I have read somewhere (forget exactly where) that these clubs were sometimes stuck into the ground and used as stools. The handle/loop on this object would be useless as a practical grip, as the spear edge would cut the bearer's hand or wrist. Some references would be - Christopher Spring's book on African Weapons, Peter Westerdyjk's study on throwing knives and the Pitt-Rivers Museum Southern Sudan website. Louisblade's pictured weapon looks like a fine quality Somali spearhead. Regards and apologies for the extended waffle....

18th July 2008, 11:08 PM	#13
tribalarms Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 26	No need to label it as assembled just as it looks impractical. It may still send out the right message to the initiated. The spiked "spearbutt" mentioned would be protruding from the clubhead. The blade is still present. I know of several, although it is a very rare weapon.