multi-cultural

[Jeff Pringle]

Did you guys see this go by on ebay?
Looks to be a gen-u-ine Nihonto o-yari (“big spear” in Japanese), re-engineered with some Japanese sword parts into a sword by some islander(?), but where, and any guesses as to when?
The shape of the handle, relatively simple carving and zoomorphic element make me think Filipino, but I am by no means familiar with SE Asian stuff and would like to hear other opinions, and has anyone seen other items of similar mixed heritage?

[RhysMichael]

I would say definitely a composite piece, maybe fake maybe from left over or captured parts. Do the parts look and feel real ? It has a philippines feel to me also. I cannot say why but something about it makes me think of a sansibar. I have no conscious basis for that, so its just a thought. I would love to handle this piece.

[Rick]

Strikes me as a Philippine modification too .
I'd like to see details of the base of the spear .

An O Yari would seem a strange thing to find in the Philippines; I can see NCO blades etc. , but a Yari ?
Would something like that go on campaign ?

[Gavin Nugent]

I under stand it to be a Hachiwara or Japanese helmety breaker.
More often than not, they do resemble a Jitte but also come in a plain curved, "rod" for want of a better word with no protrusion to catch blades. Horn handles are very common too, I have read it is used as a left handed parrying devise as well.
I though it looked composite, but from images that I have seen over the years though it could be the real deal too.
I hope this gives some direction to those interested.

regards

Gav

[RhysMichael]

Far outside my range of study but I thought haciwara looked like this

http://www.liongate-armsandarmour.co...25-1_small.jpg

I thought Hachiwara and Tekken did not have edges as such where this blade does look like a slightly bent omi no yari
http://www.ncjsc.org/gloss_yari.htm
Below is an omi no yari

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by RhysMichael

Far outside my range of study but I thought haciwara looked like this

http://www.liongate-armsandarmour.co...25-1_small.jpg

I thought Hachiwara and Tekken did not have edges as such where this blade does look like a slightly bent omi no yari
http://www.ncjsc.org/gloss_yari.htm
Below is an omi no yari

Yes you are right about the image you produced, but for other variances of this weapon's appearances, refer to Stones Glossary.
The handle being of horn and it's shape and fittings are typical of these items, I too am no expert but I did look at these at length when I stumbled across them some years ago and found that the square blade(for want of a better word) and hook that appears in the image you provided are the norm, but they do stray far outside these boundries. For all intents and purposes, it could well have been a modified yari to produce this somewhat unusual item.

Gav

[G. McCormack]

That menuki on the hilt looks like part of a WWII japanese menuki..I could be wrong.
The patina and condition of the horn reminds me of many of my first-half-of-the-20th century filipino pieces.

Interesting mix.

[Jeff Pringle]

Definitely omi-no-yari, definitely a composite piece. The re-hilting feels honest, it was done by someone who knew how to make a sword; it would be in better shape but it looks like late in life somebody attacked an iron fence with it.
Since the blade was originally Nihonto, I don’t have to respect the patina, right? The steel looks koto (pre-1600s), so once I’ve taken all the ripples out the rust is going away, and we’ll see what else the metal has to say about its origins.

[Andrew]

If that was a genuine o-yari someone should be shot for butchering it and cutting down the tang.

I'd love to hear from Rich on this...

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Jeff Pringle

Definitely omi-no-yari, definitely a composite piece. The re-hilting feels honest, it was done by someone who knew how to make a sword; it would be in better shape but it looks like late in life somebody attacked an iron fence with it.

I am guessing that since it resembles a Hachiwara or Japanese helmet breaker in fom, the pounding that it shows would be consistant with the application of that style of weapon, albeit a compound creation, it could well have been as such in times past.

Gav

[Lee]

This yari also lost its long tang:



http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000158.html

[Jeff Pringle]

Interesting Yarifish, Lee! The carving’s stylized realism incline me to agree with the trend of the thread in thinking it was modified somewhere close in to Japan. I don’t think I have ever seen a fish face carved quite like that one, if I do I’ll let you know.

Gav, if the auction photo above isn’t making it clear, you’ll have to take my word for it – there is no resemblance to a hachiwara in the form of this item.

The curve of the blade was damage done long after the piece had ended its useful life, the associated edge damage is very fresh and indicates five or six strong swipes at an immovable object in the hands of someone unfamiliar with edged weapons; a cluster of them too close to the grip with a few wild blows as the destroyer found his range. Really, more tragic than the cut down tang.

Evidently, the spear saw significant service as a sword, the forward edge has been re-sharpened enough to bring it a sixteenth of an inch (1.2mm) closer to the ridge than the back edge in the area of the center of percussion.

[Andrew]

Jeff is it worth trying to rework that blade and straighten it out again before you polish it?

[Jeff Pringle]

It is to me, and it would need to be straightened to do the polishing correctly. Since the major warps were unfairly installed (if I’m reading the damage correctly, of course), and since with Japanese blades you can pin down the time and place of manufacture, even the individual smith, by looking in to the polished steel – it feels like the right thing to do.
It can be a risky operation, since you never know when metal fatigue will cause a blade with a long history of flexing to snap, but I was able to coax it through and it is mostly straight now, just a couple minor adjustments left.

[Andrew]

Nice! Are you going to try and heat treat it again, or leave well-enough alone? What about the mountings?

Love to see pics when you get a polish going. Any chance you could take pics along the way as you restore it?

[Henk]

Originally Posted by Andrew

Love to see pics when you get a polish going. Any chance you could take pics along the way as you restore it?

I'm convinced many members would like to follow the process by pictures and explanation. A great project to restore a magnificent piece to its old glory.
We are ancious to see the results.

[Jeff Pringle]

No desire to re-heat treat the blade, since I’m interested in what’s left of the original heat treating and it feels like that would be a final insult to this blade which has already had a tough life. The hilt could get some surface-level help, but not ‘til after the blade is in better shape. I don’t think I’ll disassemble the grip, which will limit the scope of work on that area.
A photo essay sounds like a good idea, though this isn’t a front-burner project so it might go on for a while! The final result will be far short of the blade’s former glory, though, it is too far gone to be more than a shadow of its original self. I’m thinking of splitting the difference between a conservation and restoration, restoring it back to a possibly imaginary point just before it fell into the hands of people unaware of basic sword care – but there is a lot of deep rust and other damage that will remain.

I used a manual press to remove the bends and ripples, since it has good control at the high force levels needed to take out that curve. There were also a lot of bends, so it was helpful in isolating them one by one. I held the blade against a flat surface and marked where it touched, then used blocks of wood at those points to transmit the force in the right direction.

[mross]

It looks like the butt cap may be a kashira. Is it possible the handguard is a reworked tsuba? It also looks like it could hava a fuchi there also. Intresting to say the least. Further look also appears to have a seppa next to the tsuba like guard?

[Jeff Pringle]

Yes, the grip is wearing a fuchi and kashira in brass, the guard is a copper tsuba with 1/3 hacked off indicating that the new owner was right-handed and liked to carry the sword with the grip close-in to the body (well, I guess most swords are worn close-in compared to the Japanese style) – two copper seppa.
Next step is to remove the surface rust with a fine-grit stone to see what’s really going on, determine the course of further action; and polish a small section to check out the steel and hamon.

[mross]

Jeff, very cool. I don't know about anybody else but I'm excited!

[katana]

This has become a very interesting thread. Great work Jeff .....can't wait to see the finished result and love the idea of following the progress, as it happens.

Kind Regards David

[mross]

Jeff, any further developments on this?

[Jeff Pringle]

Yes, there has been some - but it is not finished yet!
I'll take some photos soon and give an update.

[Gavin Nugent]

Jeff, would this method of straightening work on a very old Katana without causing damage to the outer steel? Most swords I have had to straighten I've just used a large copper mallet and some pine timber blocks.
I ask as a friend wants to straighten one and I am reluctant to use the blocks and hammer method on harder steel than what I am used to, maybe the press would be a better option, maybe there is another method you can suggest?

thanks

Gav

[Lee]

Poor yari! At least I know it is in capable hands for what restoration can be done.

A few weeks ago, this past July 4th, our local town museum has a special WWII artifacts display, much of it belonging to a local collector, who was also present to interpret it. While he has collected much of it over the years, the core of the collection was things his father had brought back from the Pacific theater. Among his father's souvenirs were a gunto damaged near the tip by a projectile and a curious spear, the shaft also damaged by projectile, which his father told him had come to no longer be needed by a Japanese master sergeant on the beach at the battle of Saipan. This was not a typical yari, the blade was more leaf shaped in the form of a typical generic spear. The pole was interesting as it had two steel ferrules with screw joints, so that the pole could be broken down for transport. The workmanship was quite good and the look was very much WWII machine shop to me, and I do not mean an American machine shop. I only add this as it seems to be a credible second-hand account of a member of the Japanese military having carried a spear into combat in WWII. Perhaps he was not alone in having a spear and perhaps this is how your yari got out to the islands and came to meet the fate of its second (or third) life.

[trenchwarfare]

Very interesting piece. Anything is possible when it comes to things like this sword. Lots of goods got traded around the world by salors, and pirates who went around the world. I saw a Katana on ebay a few years ago, that was done-up in a very African style.

[mross]

Digging through some old threads and was wondering how this was going?

[stephen wood]

Originally Posted by trenchwarfare

I saw a Katana on ebay a few years ago, that was done-up in a very African style.

...a member of the Arms and Armour Society recently told me that a Japanese Armour had been found on the field of Omdurman...
I think that the writing on the guard is Siddam - the medieval Sanskrit orthography used in Japanese Buddhism...

[Jeff Pringle]

It is still resting comfortably on the back burner
I got the blade straight and cleaned it up enough to count the hagire (5) and polished the tip enough to see some nice dark koto-loking steel, decided that I should bring it to the local nihonto club and see what they had to say...then got distracted by some other artifacts

[David R]

Any more on this one??