keris and spirit

[PenangsangII]

Dear George,

Tiban literally means fall, so pamor tiban means pamor that falls from the heaven (I quote you) on a keris. Of course pamor tiban has some mystical references to it, depending on what type of pattern. Ensikloplidi Keris would be able to tell you more of the mystical properties of certain pamor pattern .

Penangsang

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by pakana

Are there any info for the keris with pamor Tiban? As I know, this kind of pamor is unplanned by the empu, and it had something to do with the will of Heaven for this keris..That gives a special "spiritual" meaning to the keris or no?

george

There are two types of pamor, based on the making of it. The first is -- as you said -- unplanned pamor by the empu. Yes, you may call it as "God-given pamor". (The type of pamor that Mr Haryono Haryoguritno called it as "pamor jwalana" in his book, "Keris Jawa, Between Myth and Logical Reasoning).

On the contrary, is "pamor rekan" or "engineered pamor" -- for instance: pamor ron kendhuru, lar gangsir, walang sinundukan etc. The empu was engineering so carefully the material of pamor, that the result could manifest the planned pamor. (Mr Haryono Guritno called it as "pamor anukarta")

Some unsuspected pamor, such as "raja gundhala" believed by them who believed it -- could gave certain power or good effect to the owner of the keris. Or pamor "sumber mas" (fountain of gold) -- usually the form is like a couple of layered circles in the ganja or the separated base of the keris.

That is just a tiny info on "pamor tiban"...

Ganjawulung

[pakana]

Thank you so much for the reply Penangsang and Ganjawulung.

Unfortunately Javanese is not my native language, so I don't have access to items such as Ensiclopedi Keris

george

[pakana]

Greetings keris spiritualists

I would like to share a strange incident with you, and I would like to hear your opinions/thoughts. It happend several years ago, on my first trip to Java.

During that trip I had my first keris. I bought it from a market place. I was very happy for my purchase, because I was trying to get one for sometime.

When I got back to my hotel, I put the keris on the desk of the room and went to sleep. It was a very strange night, because all night long I woke up several times with the feeling that I was shaking from inside, like I was possesed by something. That was the first, and the last time I had that kind of "visit".

Next day I had a talk with some friends that live in Indonesia, and they said that maybe it was the spirit of the empu, checking the new owner.

Any thoughts/similar incidents?

george

[pakana]

One more thing.

On my next trip,I've learned that a week after the seller sold the keris, his wife accidentally died..spooky

george

[A. G. Maisey]

Doxycycline works wonders for those shakes inside.

One 50mg tablet daily as prophylaxis.

Three 50mg tablets three times daily when the curse really starts to bite, backed up with imodium.

Good idea to stay away from sate ayam too.

[pakana]

Hello mr. Maisey,

I can understand that you are a bit of sceptic for incidents like that. I had my share in food poisoning a week later that event. So you completely deny the chance of maybe something "strange" happened? I'm sure that with your experience in keris field, you will surely witnessed strange things..

george

[A. G. Maisey]

G'day George,

Yeah, I'm a bit sceptical. Normally I would have shut up and said nothing, but I just felt like being a bit facetious.To good an opportunity to miss.Sorry.

I have witnessed one strange thing associated with keris, but it could perhaps have been rationally explained. Only that one possibly strange thing.

I have heard many,many stories of strange things associated with keris.

I have had first hand experience of repeated inexplicable occurrences that have nothing at all to do with keris.

Strange, inexplicable things can occur.

But in my experience, these strange, inexplicable things are invariably associated with a particular type of person.

I am not that type of person, and the strange , inexplicable things keep their distance.

[David]

Originally Posted by pakana

One more thing.

On my next trip,I've learned that a week after the seller sold the keris, his wife accidentally died..spooky

george

I am not sure why you would believe that this tragic event would have anything to do with your keris. Accidents happen and people die all the time. Why do you see a connection here?
If i really thought that someone died because i bought their husband's keris i would immediately return it to him.
I certainly would not completely rule out your hotel "visitation" as a paranormal event, but frankly it could have been so many other things that caused your sleepless night, especially since you admit that this is the only time this occurred in the presence of this keris. Sleepless nights, especially in strange hotel rooms far away from home are really pretty common.
It is very easy to construct any kind of paranormal thinking you like around any event. Could a long died empu be checking up on the new owner of one of the many keris he made in his lifetime. Sure, why not. But i would think that he probably has better things to do in the afterlife than that.

[pakana]

All opinions are welcome, thank you

george

[Raden Usman Djogja]

Dear George and Kerislovers,

Sometimes someone feels something is normal whilst others feel it is not normal (strange). It depends on many aspects surrounding the incident considered as "a strange thing". For me and many others, perhaps, sleepless in a hotel far away from home is quite common. However, based on his experiences, sleepless in a hotel is very strange thing for George. The factor of uneasy to sleep varies amongst person. To someone, far away from his partner is a factor. To other one, "close up" from her partner is a factor.

In my own stand, I will try to believe what George said it was strange is strange. No more and no less. Then, I will try to give second opinion whenever George started to find explanation why it was happened.

I believe George had a strange thing when he brought his new keris in the hotel. It is quite common occasion amongst collectors when they have a new member, isnt it? I mean collectors who possessing several kerises. To collector who already possessing abundant kerises, it will be different. To many stange things will become "normal thing". It is a statistical matter.

What do I still want to bring second/third opinion is when George suspected his keris' empu whom makes him sleepless. Perhaps, I agree with David.

Nevertheless, in short, George, treat your first collection as it deserves. Make your first impression on your first collection as a hint...that there is something more than you see. The rest... up to you.

warm regards,

Usman

[PenangsangII]

Dear George,

In Malay custom, on the day you take possession of a new keris, the new owner has to introduce him/herself to the khadam/penjaga of the keris. So, it's best if the owner can lime clean the keris, cleanse it with water, dry it with kemenyan (spiritually, it also means feeding) and then oil it. Now, after the new owner does all that, put the keris under the pillow before going to sleep....a dream will tell the new owner something about the keris, former owner, the empu & so on.... But of course, this procedures may not be acceptable to the western standard...

[pakana]

Thank you Usman and Penangsang for your opinions, insightful as always.

Although my collection increased the following years, that insident was the only one I had. I can't deny that with the next kerises I had, I was rather "receptive" to similar experiences, maybe waiting to witness another one. But nothing happened.As a person I'm rather sceptical myself, like most of you in this forum.

But sometimes I'm thinking of the previous owners of the keris we possess. All the fears, all the wishes they had, and rely upon the keris to help. All the countless offerings they gave to them (or not). And in the end, this part of their soul that each and everyone gave to them. Not to mention the work of the empu, that gave a part of his/her existance to make it as well. How can somebody consider it "dead" and soulless?

Some romantic thoughts..

george

[David]

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

But of course, this procedures may not be acceptable to the western standard...

I have no idea what you mean here by "western standards".
Generalizations about what is or isn't acceptable by any culture are bound to yield surprising results.
A touch of healthy skepticim does not necessarily mean one does not believe in the unseen worlds. But not every bump in the night is due to the spirits. If you believe that you are likely to become a slave to supersition. All incidents must be approached logically before we automatically brand them as paranormal.
It seems to me that whenever someone questions such an event on these forums it is automatically assumed that they have no belief in such things, or that it is not "acceptable" to them or their culture (Western). The paranormal or occult is very acceptable to me. I have studied and practiced aspects of magickal belief systems all my adult life. Still i am wary of stories of the occult that have little information to confirm them. I have also seen that a completely open acceptance that regards every bump in the night as a sign of the spiritual creates an atmosphere that allows charatans and cheats to take advantage of a highly supersitious populous. So i remain open, but skeptical.
Unfortunately we are often looking for some kind of smoking gun proof to affirm our spiritual events. These proofs almost never manifest. The "true" spiritual experience can never be fully explained or put into proper words. In the end i think spiritual events in our lives are really only meant for that particular individual. When we know deep in our being that we have experienced such an event, whether it is to do with keris or otherwise, there is no need to prove it (or even tell it) to others. The bottom line is how did this event effect/change/bring growth to your life? How is your life different now? If it hasn't changed your life it probably was merely something you ate.

[Raden Usman Djogja]

Dear Gonjo, Alan, David, Penangsang and Kerislovers,

I would like to tell a story. Actually, this story fits both for this thread and “Keris and Spirit” thread. Before starting my story, please after reading this story you will not ask me questions such as “Usmen, can you give me reference for your story?” It is time to me to ask you the reference (if any). Why? Because by asking reference, it likes demanding me to go back to school in Jawa whilst, now, I am in the midst of African jungle.

Let’s begin,

Days ago, I raise a question to Gonjo what kind of pusakas/heirlooms Surakarta Kingdom has (I do not remember the exact question by the way). Moreover, in this thread, some discussion revealed Paliyan Negari (the division of one state becoming two states equally) by Giyanti Treaty.

An actor of Jawa political leader at that time was RADEN MAS SAHID (founder of Mangkunegaran and son in law of PRINCE MANGKUBUMI, founder of Jogjakarta Kingdom). Latter, Raden Mas Sahid (Mas Sahid) was known as MANGKUNEGORO I and Prince Mangkubumi was known as HAMENGKU BUWONO I (HB I).

Mas Sahid’s childhood was very poor and sorry. Actually, he was high elevated person. However, he and his great family members (core and extended) were treated unfairly by the ruler at that time. The occupation of Mas Sahid was to care royal horses in stable. It was way to insult someone from high society at that time.

As a consequence of the treatment received, Mas Sahid did not have access to get “good and modern” education and did not have access to socialize with respectful class member. The most respectfull person who Mas sahid could access was only the Capitan of China named Mas Garendi or Sunan KUNING (?). So, the source of knowledge of Mas Sahid mostly came from AJARs/GURUs. Ajar or Guru had a PADEPOKAN/PAGURON/PERGURUAN. Before modern education spreaded widely in Jawa, ordinary children who want to get education went to padepokan as MURIDs of AJAR/GURU or went to PESANTREN as SANTRIs of KIAI/KYAI.

In padepokan, factuually in Jawa society till now, the legend of Mataram’s founder was preserved well and even cultivated hyperbolically. Before Giyanti’s Paliyan Negari, there were two times of Paliyan Negari in Jawa. The first one was Great Kendiri Kingdom divided into two kingdoms namely: Jenggala and Kediri. The second one was “quasi” Paliyan Negari between KI AGENG MATARAM and KI AGENG PENJAWI after the death of (h)ARYO PENANGSANG and the fall of PAJANG KINGDOM. Forget/abandon the first one (Kediri story) because it was irrelevant for my story now.

After the fall of Pajang, there was “quasi” paliyan negari between Ki Ageng Mataram dan Ki Ageng Penjawi. Kia Ageng Mataram was father of PANEMBAHAN SENOPATI, great grand father of SULTAN AGUNG. Ki Ageng Penjawi was father of PRAGOLOPATI I, grandfather of PRAGOLOPATI II. Pragolopatis were emperors of Pati and northern coastal area of Jawa. During paliyan negari negotiation, Ki Ageng Mataram showed less ambition in choosing territory. He let his foster older brother (Ki Ageng Penjawi) to occupy cultivated land and dense inhabitant and crowded harbour in northern Jawa. He just chose uncultivated land, namely ALAS MENTAOK (mentaok jungle). Even, he did not show his appetite to inherit the wealth of former Pajang Kingdom. In contrary, he demanded at all cost to get Pajang’s heirlooms: kerises, tombaks, kendalis, stones which considered as jimat/pusaka such as NYAI DELIMO (Queen Kalinyamat’s main heirloom).

Why did he choose only Alas Mentaok which strategic and economic perspectives were nothing?
Because in Jawa beliveness, in Alas Mentaok lies down WAHYU KEPRABON of Jawa after the fall of Majapahit. This wahyu had been waiting for its new master.

Why did he choose pusakas?
Having pusakas were part of requirement for preparing himself or his offspring as a proper place for Wahyu Keprabon. By having Wahyu Keprabon, power and wealth would follow behind. Lack of wahyu, every power and wealth would disappear by thousand causes. And historian wrote, Mataram Kingdom rose whilst Pati Empire fall down.

This legend of Mataram’s Founder believed deeply by Mas Said. He used it as a guidance of his path to find his glory. During Giyanti Paliyan Negari, the position of Mas Sahid was both warlord and son in law of Prince Mangkubumi. In negotiation, he advised Prince Mangkubumi to follow his ancestor way. Prince Mangkubumi agreed and follow this idea. He chose Jogjakarta but demanding the main heirlooms such as KIAI PLERED the legendary. At that time, Jogjakarta was transit place for copse of royal family who died somewhere and would buried in IMOGIRI or Surakarta. Compared with Surakarta/Kartosuro, Jogjakarta was far less attractive. However, the legend of Alas Mentaok inspired Father and Son in law. Perhaps, this story can also explain why Jogjakarta has more legendary heirlooms than Solo and why Surakarta palace artifact is more glorious than Jogja palace artifact.

After gaining war and getting Jogjakarta region, Prince Mangkubumi became HAMENGKU BUWONO I (HB I). Becoming HB I means becoming legitimate player. To run kingdom and to play power role at that time, the presence of wealth/money/cash resources was important. HB I felt that important and realized he was lack of those resources. Then, perhaps, he felt to follow Mas Sahid’s advises led to the wrong direction (?) The relationship of father and son in low deteriorated and ended in bitterness. HB I and his former enemy collaborated to attempt to kill Mas Sahid. Since then Mas Sahid started to realized, none can rely on his faith to other, even to beloved father in law. He started to struggle of power solely. Finally, he got what he wanted, a territory for him called Mangkunegaran and he became MANGKUNEGORO I (MN I).

The legacy of HB I (and MN I) of the importance aspect of spirit within pusakas (heirlooms) was so deep amongst Jogjakarta people. Now, it can be understood why spirit aspect of keris/tombak is quite importance for Jogja People. They expect wahyu/spirit inside pusakas (as their ancestor/kingdom founder espected). As Gonjowulung mentioned, Jogjanese/Jogja school/ Jogja genre tends to oppose to “NGLARAS” keris/tombak/pusakas. Why? Because they are afraid if by “DILARAS” keris’s spirit/wahyu/inner power will be downgraded. It is believed if keris/tombak is “fired” (reshaped or other action using fire) the inner power/wakyu/spirit will be corrected (even disappear). Yes, Alan is totally right (technical aspect point of view), by “DILARAS” the deterioration/corrotion of keris will be slower. However, amongst Jogjanese, preservation of keris as intangible heritage comes later. The first and most important is “SPIRIT INSIDE KERIS.

Okay… that is all for now. Hope you enjoy today story. Tomorrow I will bring another tale. But don’t forget…give your donation for orphanage. The small effort from you means a live for them.

Warm salam,

Usmen

[A. G. Maisey]

Good yarn Raden, and not at all the sort of story one could ask for a reference to support. What you have given us is personal experience and personal opinion. No references needed for that.

Actually, prior to Mangkubumi collaborating with Mas Said, they had been opponents, then they came together, but as you have told, eventually they separated again.

This division of Jawa was something that the Dutch saw as a "divide and conquer" move, but what they did not realise was that the division of a kingdom was a relatively normal and regular occurrence in Jawa. In fact, for a long time after the division the ordinary people in Jawa thought that everything was going as usual. Things had always been like this, with two opposing seats of power, and sooner or later one or the other would triumph. Of course, this never happened, because the Dutch were there to keep a lid on things.

Actually the division in Javanese eyes took place a long time before the Dutch were forced to regularise it with the Treaty of Giyanti. Mangkubumi set up his seat of power in the area of present day Jogja in 1749. Its just that it took the Dutch 6 years to recognise it.By the time of Giyanti, Mangkubumi already had the support of most of the Javanese elites, and PBIII's position was weakened even further because those princes who had stayed loyal to Surakarta were arrested by the Dutch. At the time of Giyanti, poor old PBIII had almost no support at all. Because of the nature of Javanese kingship, this effectively meant that PBIII could not be king, as a Javanese king only functions by concensus. He cannot take nor make unilateral decisions, especially in matters of state. This was something that the Dutch did not understand, and was one of the prime reasons for the collapse of PBII. The Dutch saw their support of PBIII as Susuhunan as a continuation of legitimate line of descent. This was a European concept and out of place in Jawa.But the Dutch did not realise this. Had the Dutch not been players in the game none of the disasters of Kartosuro would have occurred, and the court scene in Jawa today would be considerably different to what it is. You might even take the viewpoint that the Jawa of the 19th and 20th centuries was a creation of the Dutch.

Just one very minor thing needs to be made clear from Raden's post:- when a keris blade is subjected to normal maintenance procedures involving cleaning up an edge, or tidying up a ganja or kembang kacang, this is done cold, and it is only done after asking permission of the maker of the blade and any presence which may be inside the blade. We do not just pick the blade up, throw it into a fire, and take to it with hammer, tongs and electric grinder.Correctly carried out it is an almost religious ceremony.

On the other hand, if a blade is to be reworked for commercial reasons, the approach is entirely different.

The simple fact of the matter is that not all blades are of the class that need to treated as the home of an entity; not all blades are the work of an empu; not all blades were made for a specific individual. We need to be able to differentiate between those keris which need to be treated as objects with a presence, and those keris which have no presence.Naturally, if one is unable to identify those keris which possess presence, then the safest thing to do is to treat all keris as if they had a presence.

Yes, I understand very clearly why people in Jogja act as they do.