Locally sourced jian?

kronckew · 22nd April 2007, 08:37 PM

hi,

being of suspicious nature, i only bid a teeny amt. for these on epray, and won, guess everyone else was more suspicious, tho one other bidder risked a slightly lesser amt... they are local here in the UK, so i suspected that they may be from an estate sale, rather than the normal 0.99 (plus a zillion pounds shipping) china dung aged made yesterday specials. not being in any way an expert on chinese swords, i thought i'd post these here so y'all can throw your brickbats & educate me on where i went wrong. i'm looking for a goose quill sabre at some point so i'd like to learn.

full ebay listing

kronckew · 23rd April 2007, 10:09 AM

i posted this also on another more general forum i frequent, had one reply thinking they were real folded steel, one for them being 'fakes'.

i suspect myself that they are recent copies rather than ancient (i noted the right hand one's mounts had fasteners holding the slotted suspension bar to the mounts that are a bit shiny and seem to have a screw-driver slot, coulda been a recent repair tho & also thought the chinese on the left one a bit crude. i suspected that the patterning was a bit similar to those you see on the chinese sites. .... i asked the seller if they were from an estate sale or more recent mfg. (as in last week) but he did not reply as yet

the price wasn't bad - if they were originals i'd feel bad about fixing them up and sharpening them & i'd probably have had to pay a considerable amount more. i bought them to play with rather than as investments

will see when they arrive if they are good junk or bad junk.

Ferguson · 23rd April 2007, 01:15 PM

Good morning sir! Good to see you here.
I've only handled one old Chinese sword, that belonged to Rsword. So I'm not at all qualified to say, but I'm 99% sure, as you are, that they are recent. Based on the sellers other items, and the laws of probablility only. Also, for the pattern to show like it does, someone would have had to etch them, and therefore would have known what they were. But at the price you paid, they are very nice decorators.

I've paid more for worse.

We'll see what the experts say.

Happy Ebay hunting!

Steve

josh stout · 23rd April 2007, 04:12 PM

Well they certainly are recent fakes. The one on the left is indeed pattern welded, but it is low quality work. My guess is that both of them weigh more than 1K have very soft steel, and are balanced too far toward the tip. There can also be issues with the tang being separately welded, but thankfully that is rare. If you use them for practice, they probably wont just come apart and send the blade spinning, but you never know. If you practice with these occasionally they will make you strong, but so would using a crowbar, and it might be safer. If you practice with these regularly they will begin to distort your movement. Once you find a genuine jian you will never want to look at these again.

Keep an eye on the swap forum. I will be posting an antique willow leaf saber soon.
Josh

kronckew · 23rd April 2007, 04:59 PM

thanks, josh. i'll keep my eyes out for it in the swap section....

i'm not into tai chi or anything that organised. i do prefer to have sharp users rather than dull wall hangers, and if i can pick up a cheap place-holder on ebay till a proper one comes along, i do. i like buying ones that are a bit distressed and have fun cleaning and doing some minor restoration.

i'd probably not swing one of these seriously as i'd need to do it outdoors and i'd probably get arrested for possession of an offensive weapon

, and i have ones i'd be inclined to pick up first.

if i WERE to swing one seriously i have a few modern steel replicas i'd be a lot more comfortable with, like this one from viktor berbekucz:

or a couple of antiques i'd bet my life on.

22nd April 2007, 08:37 PM	#1
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	Locally sourced jian? hi, being of suspicious nature, i only bid a teeny amt. for these on epray, and won, guess everyone else was more suspicious, tho one other bidder risked a slightly lesser amt... they are local here in the UK, so i suspected that they may be from an estate sale, rather than the normal 0.99 (plus a zillion pounds shipping) china dung aged made yesterday specials. not being in any way an expert on chinese swords, i thought i'd post these here so y'all can throw your brickbats & educate me on where i went wrong. i'm looking for a goose quill sabre at some point so i'd like to learn. full ebay listing

23rd April 2007, 10:09 AM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	i posted this also on another more general forum i frequent, had one reply thinking they were real folded steel, one for them being 'fakes'. i suspect myself that they are recent copies rather than ancient (i noted the right hand one's mounts had fasteners holding the slotted suspension bar to the mounts that are a bit shiny and seem to have a screw-driver slot, coulda been a recent repair tho & also thought the chinese on the left one a bit crude. i suspected that the patterning was a bit similar to those you see on the chinese sites. .... i asked the seller if they were from an estate sale or more recent mfg. (as in last week) but he did not reply as yet the price wasn't bad - if they were originals i'd feel bad about fixing them up and sharpening them & i'd probably have had to pay a considerable amount more. i bought them to play with rather than as investments will see when they arrive if they are good junk or bad junk.

23rd April 2007, 01:15 PM	#3
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Good morning sir! Good to see you here. I've only handled one old Chinese sword, that belonged to Rsword. So I'm not at all qualified to say, but I'm 99% sure, as you are, that they are recent. Based on the sellers other items, and the laws of probablility only. Also, for the pattern to show like it does, someone would have had to etch them, and therefore would have known what they were. But at the price you paid, they are very nice decorators. I've paid more for worse. We'll see what the experts say. Happy Ebay hunting! Steve

23rd April 2007, 04:12 PM	#4
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	Well they certainly are recent fakes. The one on the left is indeed pattern welded, but it is low quality work. My guess is that both of them weigh more than 1K have very soft steel, and are balanced too far toward the tip. There can also be issues with the tang being separately welded, but thankfully that is rare. If you use them for practice, they probably wont just come apart and send the blade spinning, but you never know. If you practice with these occasionally they will make you strong, but so would using a crowbar, and it might be safer. If you practice with these regularly they will begin to distort your movement. Once you find a genuine jian you will never want to look at these again. Keep an eye on the swap forum. I will be posting an antique willow leaf saber soon. Josh

23rd April 2007, 04:59 PM	#5
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	thanks, josh. i'll keep my eyes out for it in the swap section.... i'm not into tai chi or anything that organised. i do prefer to have sharp users rather than dull wall hangers, and if i can pick up a cheap place-holder on ebay till a proper one comes along, i do. i like buying ones that are a bit distressed and have fun cleaning and doing some minor restoration. i'd probably not swing one of these seriously as i'd need to do it outdoors and i'd probably get arrested for possession of an offensive weapon , and i have ones i'd be inclined to pick up first. if i WERE to swing one seriously i have a few modern steel replicas i'd be a lot more comfortable with, like this one from viktor berbekucz: or a couple of antiques i'd bet my life on.