What is this!

kino · 19th April 2007, 12:29 AM

Your comments please.

Rick · 19th April 2007, 01:22 AM

Looks like a one-off hybrid to me.

War souvenir for the Japanese soldier?

Rich · 19th April 2007, 02:26 AM

IMHO, it's more likely a Chinese thingie. No self-respecting Japanese swordsmith
would ever make such an atrocity. It is possible that it is a one-of. I can't
imagine anybody making two of these (what ever they are trying to be?? )
I suspect (pure speculation) that it's another of those bizarre thingies
coming out of China recently to sell on ebay, or similar market.

I've studied Japanese swords for about 25 years and have never seen anything
even vaguely resembling this.

Rich S

RSWORD · 19th April 2007, 02:30 AM

The blade looks to be an over active Borneo Mandau blade. Could it be a WWII put together piece from Borneo?

RhysMichael · 19th April 2007, 02:31 AM

A re-hilted parang ilang ?

RhysMichael · 19th April 2007, 02:32 AM

RSword beat me to it but we were close ~lol~

DaveS · 19th April 2007, 04:57 AM

It is indeed a mandau. Over the years Lonna and i have collected about 200 more or less and we think that this blade shows the finest fretwork on any piece that we have ever seen. Fred Colluzzi sent us pictures of this sword about fifteen years ago and asked us if we had ever seen a blade like this, with this style of handle and were we interested in buying it. Naturally we jumped at the chance. I think it is definitely pre 1900, but as for the cast handle none of the collectors out here have been able to come up with an explanation. Fred seems to think it is a rough cast japanese naval D-ring handle. after seeing some of that type handle, he just might be right. We also don't know if a japanese soldier stationed on Borneo saw the blade and liked it or if a dyak saw a naval style and decided to copy it. It is a strange piece with a story that will never be really known..............Dave

asomotif · 19th April 2007, 09:15 AM

I agree with Rich that no japanese swordmaker would ever produce this quality hilt.

The blade is from Borneo, that is no doubt.
So somebody got of a chinese(?) copy naval hilt and a mandau blade and made this weird combination.
A chance might be that the copy naval hilt was made in Borneo but it surely is a copy.

Lets not forget that dayak and especially Iban are flexible people. One of them might have wanted to stick out of the crowd and made this amazing combination to wear on a gawai.

But to be sure you should really know the provenance.
Where was it collected ?

Best regards,
Willem

Justin · 19th April 2007, 12:59 PM

From the pics it looks to me like the guard and grip are two seperate pieces brazed together.I wonder if the guard could have been salvaged from something else and the grip cast locally?

With the Dutch having been in the area for quite a while and since their sabers and hunting swords were both well known to have influenced Indonesian swords {think parang nabur},Im leaning towards a European influence rather than Japanese.

Rick · 19th April 2007, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

IMHO, it's more likely a Chinese thingie. No self-respecting Japanese swordsmith
would ever make such an atrocity. It is possible that it is a one-of. I can't
imagine anybody making two of these (what ever they are trying to be?? )
I suspect (pure speculation) that it's another of those bizarre thingies
coming out of China recently to sell on ebay, or similar market.

I've studied Japanese swords for about 25 years and have never seen anything
even vaguely resembling this.

Rich S

I think you misunderstood me Rich; agreed, no Japanese smith ever made this blade. I figured it was a married piece .

VANDOO · 19th April 2007, 03:54 PM

AN INTERESTING THINGY IT LOOKS LIKE A MARRAGE OF A MANDAU BLADE AND A SWORD GAURD WITH SOME AMATURE USING A WELDING TORCH AND A BRAZEING ROD TO MAKE THE GRIP AND ATTACH IT ALL TO THE BLADE. THE WRITING ON THE BLADE OR AN ID ON THE SWORD GAURD SHOULD PIN IT DOWN TO JAPANESE OR CHINESE . I KNOW OF AT LEAST ONE PRESENTATION MANDAU COMEING OUT OF CHINA DURING WW2 THE FAMILY SAID THEY HAD OWNED IT FOR A LONG TIME BUT DIDN'T HAVE A STORY AS TO HOW IT GOT THERE. THE BLADE ON THIS ONE LOOKS LIKE A PRESENTATION BLADE BUT IS MORE CUT OUT THAN IS USUAL IS IT A GOOD HEAVY BLADE OR ON THE THIN SIDE?
THERE IS A WHOLE CATAGORY OF EDGED THINGIES MADE BY SERVICE MEN DURING WARS OR WHEN STATIONED OVERSEAS. SOME ARE VERY WELL MADE FROM SCRATCH SOME ARE PIECED TOGETHER FROM PARTS. THEY RANGE FROM VERY GOOD WORKMANSHIP TO EXTREMELY POOR WORK BUT ALL ARE ONE OF A KIND. A PROFESSIONAL WEAPONS MAKER WOULD NOT WANT ANYONE TO KNOW HE MADE SUCH A THING BUT A SAILOR OR SOLDIER WOULD NO DOUBT BE PROUD OF IT. I LIKE SUCH THINGS AS THEY SHOW ALL THESE INTERESTING THINGS, ITS TOO BAD THAT WE WILL NEVER KNOW ITS STORY.

DaveS · 20th April 2007, 04:06 AM

Vandoo: The blade is thick and heavier than you might expect from looking at the pictures. It could be used for fighting if need be. When the mandau is looked at close up, you can tell definitly that it was cast in one piece. Could it be that this handle was cast in the Sarawak area where some lantakas were cast? Just a thought as lantakas are really works of the casting art, and not nearly as crude as this handle..............Dave.

Valjhun · 20th April 2007, 07:38 PM

The guard is from an original japanese shikibo. The blade is very nice. I also think that it is a WWII japanese souvenir from Borneo made on borneo from a caputred blade or something. What does the kanji say? Can anybody translate it?

19th April 2007, 12:29 AM	#1
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,002	What is this! Your comments please. Attached Images

19th April 2007, 09:15 AM	#8
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,224	Japanese naval hilt ? I agree with Rich that no japanese swordmaker would ever produce this quality hilt. The blade is from Borneo, that is no doubt. So somebody got of a chinese(?) copy naval hilt and a mandau blade and made this weird combination. A chance might be that the copy naval hilt was made in Borneo but it surely is a copy. Lets not forget that dayak and especially Iban are flexible people. One of them might have wanted to stick out of the crowd and made this amazing combination to wear on a gawai. But to be sure you should really know the provenance. Where was it collected ? Best regards, Willem

19th April 2007, 01:22 AM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,290	Looks like a one-off hybrid to me. War souvenir for the Japanese soldier?

19th April 2007, 02:26 AM	#3
Rich Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: comfortably at home, USA Posts: 432	IMHO, it's more likely a Chinese thingie. No self-respecting Japanese swordsmith would ever make such an atrocity. It is possible that it is a one-of. I can't imagine anybody making two of these (what ever they are trying to be?? ) I suspect (pure speculation) that it's another of those bizarre thingies coming out of China recently to sell on ebay, or similar market. I've studied Japanese swords for about 25 years and have never seen anything even vaguely resembling this. Rich S

19th April 2007, 02:30 AM	#4
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	The blade looks to be an over active Borneo Mandau blade. Could it be a WWII put together piece from Borneo?

19th April 2007, 02:31 AM	#5
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	A re-hilted parang ilang ?

19th April 2007, 02:32 AM	#6
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	RSword beat me to it but we were close ~lol~

19th April 2007, 04:57 AM	#7
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	It is indeed a mandau. Over the years Lonna and i have collected about 200 more or less and we think that this blade shows the finest fretwork on any piece that we have ever seen. Fred Colluzzi sent us pictures of this sword about fifteen years ago and asked us if we had ever seen a blade like this, with this style of handle and were we interested in buying it. Naturally we jumped at the chance. I think it is definitely pre 1900, but as for the cast handle none of the collectors out here have been able to come up with an explanation. Fred seems to think it is a rough cast japanese naval D-ring handle. after seeing some of that type handle, he just might be right. We also don't know if a japanese soldier stationed on Borneo saw the blade and liked it or if a dyak saw a naval style and decided to copy it. It is a strange piece with a story that will never be really known..............Dave

19th April 2007, 12:59 PM	#9
Justin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 175	From the pics it looks to me like the guard and grip are two seperate pieces brazed together.I wonder if the guard could have been salvaged from something else and the grip cast locally? With the Dutch having been in the area for quite a while and since their sabers and hunting swords were both well known to have influenced Indonesian swords {think parang nabur},Im leaning towards a European influence rather than Japanese.

19th April 2007, 03:54 PM	#11
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	AN INTERESTING THINGY IT LOOKS LIKE A MARRAGE OF A MANDAU BLADE AND A SWORD GAURD WITH SOME AMATURE USING A WELDING TORCH AND A BRAZEING ROD TO MAKE THE GRIP AND ATTACH IT ALL TO THE BLADE. THE WRITING ON THE BLADE OR AN ID ON THE SWORD GAURD SHOULD PIN IT DOWN TO JAPANESE OR CHINESE . I KNOW OF AT LEAST ONE PRESENTATION MANDAU COMEING OUT OF CHINA DURING WW2 THE FAMILY SAID THEY HAD OWNED IT FOR A LONG TIME BUT DIDN'T HAVE A STORY AS TO HOW IT GOT THERE. THE BLADE ON THIS ONE LOOKS LIKE A PRESENTATION BLADE BUT IS MORE CUT OUT THAN IS USUAL IS IT A GOOD HEAVY BLADE OR ON THE THIN SIDE? THERE IS A WHOLE CATAGORY OF EDGED THINGIES MADE BY SERVICE MEN DURING WARS OR WHEN STATIONED OVERSEAS. SOME ARE VERY WELL MADE FROM SCRATCH SOME ARE PIECED TOGETHER FROM PARTS. THEY RANGE FROM VERY GOOD WORKMANSHIP TO EXTREMELY POOR WORK BUT ALL ARE ONE OF A KIND. A PROFESSIONAL WEAPONS MAKER WOULD NOT WANT ANYONE TO KNOW HE MADE SUCH A THING BUT A SAILOR OR SOLDIER WOULD NO DOUBT BE PROUD OF IT. I LIKE SUCH THINGS AS THEY SHOW ALL THESE INTERESTING THINGS, ITS TOO BAD THAT WE WILL NEVER KNOW ITS STORY.

20th April 2007, 04:06 AM	#12
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	Vandoo: The blade is thick and heavier than you might expect from looking at the pictures. It could be used for fighting if need be. When the mandau is looked at close up, you can tell definitly that it was cast in one piece. Could it be that this handle was cast in the Sarawak area where some lantakas were cast? Just a thought as lantakas are really works of the casting art, and not nearly as crude as this handle..............Dave.

20th April 2007, 07:38 PM	#13
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	The guard is from an original japanese shikibo. The blade is very nice. I also think that it is a WWII japanese souvenir from Borneo made on borneo from a caputred blade or something. What does the kanji say? Can anybody translate it?