Hunting Knife expensive?

Bill M · 3rd August 2006, 09:46 AM

Just closed on eBay. Not ethnographic, but might be of interest.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...012140294&rd=1

Gosh, both Lonna and I missed it!

ariel · 3rd August 2006, 11:04 AM

This is totally incomprehensible to me

But then, again, I cannot understand why would anyone in his right mind pay thousands for a small square piece of paper with " US Mail" on it, and many of our friends only shrug their shoulders when they hear that one of us paid hell of a lot for some "rusty scimitar"...
Collecting is a funny business

I am sure that the winner of this knife thinks he got a fine deal for a very valuable thing. Congrats to him!

Lew · 3rd August 2006, 12:20 PM

Gentleman

That is a good price for a mint condition Scagel. He can turn it around a resell it for almost twice what he paid in a few years. Scagel was the progenator of modern knife makers his stuff is super hot when it comes to custom knife collecting.

Ian · 3rd August 2006, 12:40 PM

Genuine Scagels do fetch high prices. A mint Scagel is, as Lew says, an uncommon and highly collectible item. The purchaser obviously had no concerns about this one being genuine. Depends how much you trust the out of focus pictures, or perhaps he knew more about the knife than simply the eBay auction blurb.

Scagel's knives have been much copied.

Ian.

Bill M · 3rd August 2006, 01:27 PM

For that kind of money I would have gone there and handled it myself!

I have bought houses for that kind of money that had good tenants living in them.

spiral · 3rd August 2006, 02:27 PM

Poor photos & Seller with hidden feedback who only accepts money orders or cashiers checks & also states no insuarance into the "bargain."

Wouldnt risk much on that sort of set up myself.

Spiral

Bill M · 3rd August 2006, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiral

Poor photos & Seller with hidden feedback who only accepts money orders or cashiers checks & also states no insuarance into the "bargain."

Wouldnt risk much on that sort of set up myself.

Spiral

Yeah, makes me wonder also. At least he does not say "bidders identity protected." And they are blanked out.

katana · 3rd August 2006, 05:54 PM

WOW

mross · 3rd August 2006, 05:57 PM

If it's real it's is worth it. Have you seen prices for a real Moran? As stated Scagels are copied and have been for a long time. Even among collectors there are arguments about how to identify real Scagels. These things I just like to watch, way way out of my league.

Tim Simmons · 4th August 2006, 10:22 PM

I am sorry folks but in my opinion this is an obscenity. It does not even look good.

Ian · 4th August 2006, 10:29 PM

Hi Tim:

Fantastic prices for Scagel's work (real and forged) are pretty much a U.S. phenomenon. He was an icon of knife making here. The market is what the market is, and there is not a lot of sense to it sometimes.

Ian.

A. G. Maisey · 4th August 2006, 11:41 PM

I tend to agree, Tim.

Not everybody likes Jackson Pollock either, but look at what his work brings.

Scagel and Moran are icons.

You cannot assess iconic work realistically, or objectively; it becomes an emotional assessment.

Tim Simmons · 5th August 2006, 11:56 AM

The only way one can relate this to Pollock's work is if you mistake the P for a ?.

katana · 5th August 2006, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

The only way one can relate this to Pollock's work is if you mistake the P for a ?.

........I too , cannot believe the price of this knife

but then again....a lot of people cannot understand why I buy and collect weapons..

Is it the overall belief (of the bidders) that the knife is of great worth...artifically 'forced' the high price.....which is then used as a 'yard-stick' for buyers of similar knives... who bid/buy at these new 'inflated' prices....which create the belief that these type of knives are of great worth...which artifically 'force'.........

IF THIS IS THE CASE.....THEN SOONER OR LATER THE MARKET VALUE WOULD CRASH......and some collectors would end up with items worth considerably less than they paid.......

Lew · 5th August 2006, 02:12 PM

Guys

A Scagel is like owning a Piccasso they are ugly but are one of the best investments you can make right now in the US knife market. I am sure that a lot of custom knife buyers say the same thing about us (why do they spend so much money for a rusty old sword?)

Lew

Ian · 5th August 2006, 07:06 PM

Katana:

I think in the case of Scagel and Moran it goes beyond what they produced. Scagel was a pioneer in knife making in U.S., as was Moran in many ways. Both gave of their knowledge to other knife makers, and many modern knife makers look to them and a handful of other "old timers" as the founders of modern custom knife making in the U.S. Both were very prolific in terms of their output, and both were excellent craftsmen.

Ian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

........Is it the overall belief (of the bidders) that the knife is of great worth...artifically 'forced' the high price.....which is then used as a 'yard-stick' for buyers of similar knives... who bid/buy at these new 'inflated' prices....which create the belief that these type of knives are of great worth...which artifically 'force'.........

IF THIS IS THE CASE.....THEN SOONER OR LATER THE MARKET VALUE WOULD CRASH......and some collectors would end up with items worth considerably less than they paid.......

not2sharp · 5th August 2006, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

Gentleman

That is a good price for a mint condition Scagel. He can turn it around a resell it for almost twice what he paid in a few years. Scagel was the progenator of modern knife makers his stuff is super hot when it comes to custom knife collecting.

If the seller would have exerted minimal effort he would have done much better. A real Scagel in that condition is about as collectible as collectibles get.

n2s

Tim Simmons · 5th August 2006, 10:49 PM

Picasso was an artist, this chaps work from what I can see is only competent, on par with many others. I can not see the equation to art, only things like collecting beany babies.

not2sharp · 5th August 2006, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

... this chaps work from what I can see is only competent, on par with many others. ....

Yes; but, he was the man who encourage all of those many others - at least in the US - to develop that level of competence. Without him custom crafted knives in the US may have been a dead art.

n2s

ariel · 6th August 2006, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Picasso was an artist, this chaps work from what I can see is only competent, on par with many others. I can not see the equation to art, only things like collecting beany babies.

Tim,
It pains me to tell you that I fully agree with you and that our shared opinions are irrelevant.
In collecting one pays mainly for a myth be it a signature (often forged), a printing error (" Look, it is labelled US Meil!") the rarity ( "This here Beanie Baby Li'l Lavender was disconnected 6 months ago!"), the technique (wootz, after all, is mechanically inferior to Solingen steel) or an attribution (no matter how vague) to a given person.
A sword inscribed " To Lt. Joe "The Long Dong" Schmo from his homies in Calcutta" will fetch twice the price. No matter that nobody knows who the hell this Joe was, perhaps a Deputy Mule Supervisor in the sanitation unit.
Of course, without the signature and the aura, this hunting knife would have been sold for $4.99 with the box, and the box alone would fetch $5.99.
This is an example of the craziness of collecting: a totally irrational business, a Luftgescheft (dealing in air) and a very addictive narcotic.
I am sure that many visitors here look at Mark's Dhas and Erlikhan's Kilijes and just shrug shoulders in total incomprehension.
All and each of us is not one iota better or saner than this crazy jerk who paid $17K for a knife when he could get a better one at K-Mart.

Bill M · 6th August 2006, 02:52 AM

The thread has taken an interesting direction. What is Great Art? And how much of this designation is attached to a name, albeit a name that is synonymous with Art?

I remember Rembrandt's ''The Man With the Golden Helmet.'' Hailed as one of his masterpieces. In many ways synonymous with Rembrandt. Huge crowds went specially to see this painting. It hung in a place of honor.

Was it great art?" Sure. Was it really by Rembrandt? No. In 1985 scholars "downgraded" it and stated that it was NOT done by Rembrandt Harmenszoon Van Rijn, but by a pupil or imitator.

Is it still Great Art? Yes. Does it still hang in a place of honor? No.

Why?

ward · 6th August 2006, 04:31 PM

Moran was an interesting man. When I was a child I would bring my pocket knife over to his shop and he would stop his work and sharpen it for me. He shared his knowledge with any one he liked. His Damascus work was not being done by others at the time and so he taught himself. I believe calling his work just competent is a little offensive.With out his help many knife makers would not have learned the trade. He died last year.

ward

3rd August 2006, 09:46 AM	#1
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Hunting Knife expensive? Just closed on eBay. Not ethnographic, but might be of interest. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...012140294&rd=1 Gosh, both Lonna and I missed it!

5th August 2006, 10:49 PM	#18
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	stir it up Picasso was an artist, this chaps work from what I can see is only competent, on par with many others. I can not see the equation to art, only things like collecting beany babies.

6th August 2006, 04:31 PM	#22
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	Moran was an interesting man. When I was a child I would bring my pocket knife over to his shop and he would stop his work and sharpen it for me. He shared his knowledge with any one he liked. His Damascus work was not being done by others at the time and so he taught himself. I believe calling his work just competent is a little offensive.With out his help many knife makers would not have learned the trade. He died last year. ward Last edited by ward; 6th August 2006 at 08:45 PM.

3rd August 2006, 11:04 AM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	This is totally incomprehensible to me But then, again, I cannot understand why would anyone in his right mind pay thousands for a small square piece of paper with " US Mail" on it, and many of our friends only shrug their shoulders when they hear that one of us paid hell of a lot for some "rusty scimitar"... Collecting is a funny business I am sure that the winner of this knife thinks he got a fine deal for a very valuable thing. Congrats to him!

3rd August 2006, 12:20 PM	#3
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Gentleman That is a good price for a mint condition Scagel. He can turn it around a resell it for almost twice what he paid in a few years. Scagel was the progenator of modern knife makers his stuff is super hot when it comes to custom knife collecting.

3rd August 2006, 12:40 PM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,198	Genuine Scagels do fetch high prices. A mint Scagel is, as Lew says, an uncommon and highly collectible item. The purchaser obviously had no concerns about this one being genuine. Depends how much you trust the out of focus pictures, or perhaps he knew more about the knife than simply the eBay auction blurb. Scagel's knives have been much copied. Ian.

3rd August 2006, 01:27 PM	#5
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	For that kind of money I would have gone there and handled it myself! I have bought houses for that kind of money that had good tenants living in them.

3rd August 2006, 02:27 PM	#6
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Poor photos & Seller with hidden feedback who only accepts money orders or cashiers checks & also states no insuarance into the "bargain." Wouldnt risk much on that sort of set up myself. Spiral

3rd August 2006, 05:54 PM	#8
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	WOW

3rd August 2006, 05:57 PM	#9
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	If it's real it's is worth it. Have you seen prices for a real Moran? As stated Scagels are copied and have been for a long time. Even among collectors there are arguments about how to identify real Scagels. These things I just like to watch, way way out of my league.

4th August 2006, 10:22 PM	#10
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	I am sorry folks but in my opinion this is an obscenity. It does not even look good.

4th August 2006, 10:29 PM	#11
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,198	Hi Tim: Fantastic prices for Scagel's work (real and forged) are pretty much a U.S. phenomenon. He was an icon of knife making here. The market is what the market is, and there is not a lot of sense to it sometimes. Ian.

4th August 2006, 11:41 PM	#12
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	I tend to agree, Tim. Not everybody likes Jackson Pollock either, but look at what his work brings. Scagel and Moran are icons. You cannot assess iconic work realistically, or objectively; it becomes an emotional assessment.

5th August 2006, 11:56 AM	#13
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	The only way one can relate this to Pollock's work is if you mistake the P for a ?.

5th August 2006, 02:12 PM	#15
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Guys A Scagel is like owning a Piccasso they are ugly but are one of the best investments you can make right now in the US knife market. I am sure that a lot of custom knife buyers say the same thing about us (why do they spend so much money for a rusty old sword?) Lew

6th August 2006, 02:52 AM	#21
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	The thread has taken an interesting direction. What is Great Art? And how much of this designation is attached to a name, albeit a name that is synonymous with Art? I remember Rembrandt's ''The Man With the Golden Helmet.'' Hailed as one of his masterpieces. In many ways synonymous with Rembrandt. Huge crowds went specially to see this painting. It hung in a place of honor. Was it great art?" Sure. Was it really by Rembrandt? No. In 1985 scholars "downgraded" it and stated that it was NOT done by Rembrandt Harmenszoon Van Rijn, but by a pupil or imitator. Is it still Great Art? Yes. Does it still hang in a place of honor? No. Why?