What swords might have been used at the Alamo battle?

[Jim McDougall]

One of the most notable events in the history of Texas is the 13 day siege of the Alamo mission from Feb. 23 to Mar. 6, 1836, and the story of this conflict has been debated, analyzed and retold pretty much endlessly ever since.

While having a personal interest in this fascinating topic myself since watching the Disney series with Fess Parker as Davy Crockett as a kid in the mid 1950s (no I did not wear a coonskin cap)...as a sword enthusiast, I have often wondered....were there swords there? What kinds would they have been?

In the naturally huge corpus of literature on the Alamo topic, at the fore is often the depiction of bristling lines of the famed 'Kentucky long rifles', and mountain men skillfully wielding them in pitched battle with overwhelmingly numbered Mexican forces.

This scenario has long since been 'readjusted' as the numbers of both 'mountain men' and the 'long rifle' have been found to have been far less than portrayed.

However, despite the tenacious revisions and study of the battle, including well documented examination of the cannon there, the guns actually used, especially the powder.......but aside from the legendary Bowie knife, NO edged weapons are noted, let alone described.

That is until Phil Collins (who many of us know from his musical fame) who has always been an avid 'Alamo' collector (afflicted by the Disney TV series contemporary to myself), wrote a book on his amazing collection. ..."The Alamo and Beyond" (Buffalo Gap Texas, 2012). In his book he illustrates 4 swords, 3 of which were to Mexican figures, but the espada ancha at top in pages shown was found at the Alamo in 1878.

The suggestion was that perhaps used by Juan Seguins contingent of Mexicans fighting on the Texian side there. It must be remembered that this was not a war between America and Mexico, but a Texian rebellion wishing for the restoration of Mexico's 1824 Constitution. The independence issue evolved during the rebellion. Texas was being ruled by the dictator Gen. Santa Anna.

My question is, while there clearly may have been espada anchas there as speculated, could there have been other types with the Texians?

My guess would be the most likely candidate would be the relatively little known US M1812 Nathan Starr saber. These were from an 1812 contract to this Connecticut maker, who had been supplying some swords responding to the Militia Act of 1808. While there were early contingents of dragoons in US military for which these were intended, the larger volume of the 5000 on order went to local and state militias.

Two of these were in New Orleans and Tennessee, which are important as these two places furnished a number of the volunteers comprising the defenders at the Alamo. These sabers, well used during the War of 1812, remained in stores and private holdings of course and were still notably present when units were forming to go to Texas in the uprising in 1835.

I know of one example with provenance to that effect, belonged to an individual from Kentucky who had gone to Texas to fight and had returned there. While the numbers of the Alamo defenders are relatively small to the entire forces fighting overall in Texas, it would be hard to imagine that swords would not have been part of the outfitting. Much of this may have been of course to exuberance at the outset, but still, there is plausible notion that some may have actually had and used these.

Another remote contender is the British M1796 light cavalry saber, whose surplus after Waterloo resulted in many being exported, of those many to US trading networks (they were known in use in numerous Indian tribes in limited degree).


This is what I have found, and I am hoping will give perspective to the question in the heading,
So what do you guys think?

Anyone else with interest in the Alamo who has encountered any mention of swords there?
Also, I cannot recall discussion anywhere here on the Starr sabers.......any insights on their distribution and use (I have heard of them even in the Civil War).

s

[fernando]

Jim, how long ago have you visited that museological space in the Alamo premises ?
Are these disatrous pictures any useful ? .


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[Jim McDougall]

EXCELLENT Fernando! great pictures, and surely suggest the presence of some swords there, though many donations there are simply 'of the period'.....still IMPORTANT , always possibilities.

Its been TOO long since Ive been there, I always dread San Antonio traffic. Definitely due for a trip so hopefully soon, hope to see the Collins collection.
Last summer I went berserk building a model of the Alamo....6 weeks of work in 100 degree heat...neighbors figured me for nuts. Mostly done, as seen here.
Far from exact or scale, but OK for yard art.

Thank you so much Fernando,
Jim

[urbanspaceman]

Hey Jim, you can always be relied on to keep us intrigued.
The only memory I have of the Alamo is of navy blue uniformed mounted soldiers with your sword at their side. I do not know where this memory comes from... maybe the John Wayne movie that I have not seen since the 1800s.
Keep us stimulated Jim

[urbanspaceman]

ps, the model looks great

[M ELEY]

I agree! Love that dioramic model you created of the Alamo! Also love this subject matter as to whether the Nathan Starr swords made it to the battle field. Unfortunately, I've nothing to add. Perhaps there are other opinions out there on these unique pattern swords...

[Rick]

I wonder if any of the Virginia Manufactory sabres wound up in that fight; they certainly were in existence in that era.

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you guys!
and for the kind words on my mini-Alamo
I do think optimistically that at least several Starr sabers made it to the Alamo, as we know even just from one found instance of a Kentuckian who carried it in the War of 1812 as well as to Texas.
There were 120 guys in the New Orleans Greys who banded in 1835, and put together 'uniforms' and assembled equipment from stored surplus from the 1812 war. It seems likely these young guys, ready to parade off to war would grab flashy sabers as well.

Rick, I do recall when you found one of the Virginia Manufactory sabers!
I honestly have wanted one of those for over 4 decades, saw a couple but WAY out of my range! There is of course always a chance one might have gotten there. Remember, there were two units of Tennessee Mounted volunteers that went to Texas, and Tennessee aint that far from Virginia.

[Jim McDougall]

In posting this query, I should have been more explicit and specified what I am looking for, which is the swords used by the defenders of the Alamo. There is no doubt of course that Mexican officers were carrying swords.

In the attack, which actually took the defenders by surprise in the wee hours of the AM, the Mexican forces were using British firearms and primarily the bayonet.

It seems Travis was likely the only officer of defenders wearing a sword, but that is unclear, as is what type of sword it was.

With the Texian defenders were Tejanos under Seguin, who were also opposed to the Mexican government under Santa Anna. These were rancheros and vaqueros who most certainly would have had espada anchas as previously noted, again at least in some degree.

We know there was at least some presence of the Starr sabers in the overall theater of the Texas campaigns in this time, as they were pretty much primary surplus from the 1812 war from militias who had participated.

With the Virginia Manufactory sabers, it would be most interesting to find evidence of these. The key factor with these was the incredibly long and difficult to handle blade length, sharply curved over 40 inches long. This unusually long blade, making these sabers pretty notable, would seem likely to have been noted in accounts of Mexican forces, which are of course mostly the only records available.
That is hopefully where something might turn up.

I keep searching.......and I really appreciate ANY entry here, every thought or observation is important whether adding evidence or examples or not.

[Jim McDougall]

As noted, the quest here is to determine what swords (if any of course) might have been used by the men who perished defending the Alamo (Feb.23 to Mar.6, 1836).
I am hoping my continued posts will not be perceived as a string of boring soliloquys, as the intent is simply sharing what I am finding as I research further, and hoping for input in accord. If nothing else, I hope that these entries will be read as a developing investigation to promote further interest in the ongoing study of the Alamo.

It is important to note that at the time before 1836, 'Texas' was actually the Mexican state of Coahuila y Tejas, and had been populated for some time with American colonists. The overthrow of Mexico's 1824 constitution and hard changes in governing by Gen. Santa Anna , who was deemed a dictator as president, was the cassus belli in the Texian Revolution.

The point of this explanation is to illustrate the fact that the potential for sword presence in use by the defenders of the Alamo may have been effectively Mexican sword forms as well as American. We know (as earlier illustrated) that Juan Seguins contingent likely had a few espada anchas.
In my original post, the espada ancha at top of page from Collins' book resembles an example I have believed from Nuevo Laredo, which is adjacent to Coahuila and just across the present border of Texas.

With this, we might speculate that any American sword types (Starr or Virginia Manufactory) might stem from being in circulation from the militias who served in the War of 1812. As noted, there were the New Orleans Greys and Tennessee Mounted Volunteers at the Alamo .
In addition to these men, there were the 'Immortal 32', the group of Rangers who were the only responders for help, and arrived February 29th.
These were effectively members of the Texian Militia, and known as the Gonzalez Ranging Company, forerunners of the famed Texas Rangers.

These were the only 'military' groups among the defenders, and that being the case, with potential for having swords.

In these cases without any experience in handling a sword, it is unlikely anyone would have one, and frankly the most common weapons among the larger body of defenders were shotguns and gaming rifles. Contrary to popular belief there were not bristling lines of Kentucky long rifles.

So the likely candidates for having actually had a sword of some kind were the militia/paramilitary

The larger context of the defenders were civilian colonists who had come to Texas to establish land holdings and prospects of success, few with military experience.

So in addition to the espada ancha (image #1 attributed to Nuevo Laredo),
2) the Nathan Starr saber (M1812-13) used by state militias per Militia Act (1808)
3)Virginia Manufactory saber, used by Virginia cavalry with huge 40" blade
4) Mexican cavalry swords with earlier blades (18th c) from the regulation M1728 swords
5) detail of the sword on right (compare to dragoon sword in photos in post #2) with French style hilt. French military styles highly favored in Mexico.

So these swords, however remote the possibility, are the primary contenders for any sword that might have been used by defenders at Alamo in final battle (Mar.1836).

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

...Its been TOO long since Ive been there, I always dread San Antonio traffic. Definitely due for a trip so hopefully soon, hope to see the Collins collection....

I have been there in 2018. Pehraps in your next visit you find the Alamo site rather touristy ... read plastified!



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[Jim McDougall]

LOL Fernando! At least they havent put in rides!
Still for Texans, we look through all the 'stuff' as this is still sacred ground, not only toward the defenders, but ALL the men who fell there.
Even the museums are as often the case, a bit 'embellished' , but again, for those deeply aware of Texas history, we see things accordingly.
Again, GREAT photos! I feel another visit coming, soon!

[Jim McDougall]

In post #2, with the excellent photos of some swords displayed at the Alamo museum, the bottom one is listed as a 'dragoon saber'.

While unclear on the intent of that classification, or any implication, I wonder if there was in mind the M1833 US Dragoon saber. There is of course a notable similarity, however the US M1833 was with brass hilt. While there were about 280 of these specifically to Texas (plus 18 to officers) they were not issued until after 1836 (when Texas became the Republic of Texas).

Then there is the more likely case that this is a Mexican 'dragoon' saber, with the distinctive langet with the branched guard, which was a French affectation favored in both US and Mexican swords.

Pages from "the American Sword 1775-1945", H.L.Peterson, 1973, the hilt is in brass, the rest of detail not relevant as the key point is the hilt with same kind of branched guard and langet in the museum example in post #2.

The 2nd image of the M1833 US Dragoon sword, in brass, no langet.

3rd, a Mexican (?) dragoon sword c. 1820s with Toledo blade....langets on branched guard, iron mounts.
* This is the most likely 'dragoon ' sword possible in Alamo context, but more likely with Mexican forces.

[Jim McDougall]

from "The American Sword 1775-1945". 1973, H.L.Peterson;
Note the Virginia (2nd Model) sword being considered, also the Nathan Starr saber of 1818, which were an altered version of the M1812 discussed. These may well have been included in the possibilities, however these would not have been among the War of 1812 surplus Nathan Starr sabers, which I think may have been possible for our context.

[kronckew]

Related:


George Hockley used a Starr sabre at San Jacinto, and Sam Houston's sword is in the Museum at the battle site. The weapons used at that decisive battle are shown HERE.


Additionally, Santa Anna's sword was captured, in the photo below. It certainly was at the Alamo. The other San Jacinto weapons would have been typical of those carried by the Texans, American and Mexican, who fought the Dictator for Independence.


The San Jacinto Battle site, Its Museum, and the nearby Battleship USS Texas (BB-35) are well worth visiting, and the traffic is probably a lot less than the Alamo. I passed by it many times while travelling between Houston & Galveston for my monthly & annual USCG Reserve duties..

[fernando]

Originally Posted by kronckew

...The San Jacinto Battle site, Its Museum, and the nearby Battleship USS Texas (BB-35) are well worth visiting, and the traffic is probably a lot less than the Alamo...

Yes indeed, Wayne. Visiting the Sky-High Monument and the Battleship were unforgettable experiences. Interesting, Museum too.

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you Wayne! Outstanding detail!!
Thats great abut George Hockley and his carrying a Starr saber at San Jacinto. He was a Colonel and apparently in command of the emplacement with the 'Twin Sisters', the cannon that provided decisive support in the battle.

This well illustrates the fact that many weapons found use in these campaigns, from many sources. I recall once someone in the museum in Austin asking why British M1821 sabers were found at San Jacinto.......these had clearly come with 'the package' as the huge volume of surplus British guns were sold to Mexico in 1820s. It is surprising that more 1796s didnt turn up .

Another item that seems to come up in these contexts are the M1832 foot artillery sword, a 'gladius' type brass hilt thing that was lousy as a weapon but used more as a tool. In post #2 (Fernando_) in the swords shown one is seen at top, and apparently cut down blade.

The San Jacinto 'Bowie' photos have one with turned back pommel (hook like). This seems to correspond to some espada anchas attributed to Potosi regions north of Mexico City (Adams, 1985).

One source notes that the relative scarcity of the Starr sabers is because of the 'Bowie' knife rage post Alamo, where many of these (along with numbers of full size swords) had blades cut down to become full hilted frontier knives.
This was undoubtedly of course the origin of the familiar "Confederate Bowie" with its hilt with knuckleguard.
Notice that it seems the M1832 brass hilt artillery swords were often cut down in this fashion.

Again, while we cannot be certain of what swords were in the hands of the defenders at the Alamo at that final seige in 1836, by seeing the assortment of assembled sword forms in circulation overall in these events during the Texian Rebellion gives us a good idea of what they might have been.

The first illustration: The British M1821 light cavalry saber. These branched hilts had become favored in Europe by this time, and Mexican sword hilts followed accordingly in the 1820s(see post #10).
Next" the brass hilt M1832 infantry/artillery sword, of gladius form following the neo classic French favor.
The 'Bowie' from San Jacinto.
The 'Potosi' form of espada ancha with turnback pommel (as included in my article on espada anchas (2023, Stockholm).

[Hotspur]

1830s U.S. militia. There were a great many 1826 Bavarian looking swords listed as Mexican and even some in the states. The sabres quite common but some straight, This one marked to Horstmann, in his new NYC shop. The unmarked brass dove head sabres quite ubiquitous. Eagles galore by the 1830s

A Starr 1818 nco at the top of the racks

Santa Anna's troops had briquet

Basically any sword made before the conflict might have been involved.

Cheers
GC