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Old 7th November 2022, 07:24 PM   #31
Jim McDougall
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Originally Posted by kronckew View Post
Form usually follows function, guardless swords like these and the Caucasian shashqa are not inteded for a combat style that requires integral hand protection.
well noted, in combative situation most of these ethnographic forms were not wielded blade to blade as in European swordplay, parrying is done with a shield when done at all. The shashka was of course a slashing saber using 'draw cut' from moving horse.
Perhaps this non parrying criteria was what brought the disdain of Burton, a master fencer, who described the leaping to avert cuts etc. derisively. This of course suggests description of the dance performances.

With the images of Tipu Tip and other Omani's in his entourage having these conical hilt swords, it does not seem these warriors would be carrying dance swords when marching into battle. So I still wonder how they were able to vibrate these fighting blades into audible sound as often described. I hope that the experts might explain this as I am not familiar enough with the physical handling of swords in these ways.
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Old 7th November 2022, 07:35 PM   #32
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Certainly no need to apologise. I'm delighted to have sparked a continuation of a conversation which I have read over a number of times and have had a continuing fascination for. I'm also pleased to see reference to a number of weapons which I also have representative examples in my collection, such as the seme, and particularly the sword from Sierra Leone, which until now I had failed to identify. The historical references cited are of great interest and I hope others may be found to broaden the knowledge base. Thanks to all who've contributed.
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Old 7th November 2022, 08:18 PM   #33
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Jim,

So I still wonder how they were able to vibrate these fighting blades into audible sound as often described. I hope that the experts might explain this as I am not familiar enough with the physical handling of swords in these ways.[/QUOTE]

I'm certainly not an expert, but I do have first hand experience that may be relevant. The sword makers of Kassala (1985) noted the flexing and vibration of certain kaskara when using a snap of the wrist. I later assumed that the blade was forged from high-end spring steel (lorry springs?) that would yield good bending. In fact they noted and demonstrated sword bending almost 90 degrees without taking a set.

A further note likely off-topic, but I just wanted to contribute a not necessarily original observation. The sword in total was a tangible element of dress and a "presentation of self". It seems to me that a blade was "selected" primarily to do the work as a tool, either in war/personal protection or ritual like dancing. European makers marks or those locally applied indicate quality. Script animals like a lion or snake evokes magic for protection.

The grip and scabbard either was left in utility mode of the lower classes or soldiers, but was of an ethnographic style. The style said to others "I am a member of this group". "Gentlemen" and others of higher class/status embellished the ethnic style grip & scabbard to demonstrate their place in society. The blade would usually be of top quality even though they often commanded others to do their fighting.

Think of the gentleman's attire as like a Texas BBQ Pistol. It would be of top quality designed to go armed (manly presentation) and show off among one's peers at a social get-together.

Best,
Ed
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Old 8th November 2022, 11:35 PM   #34
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Beautifully explained Ed, as always.
From what I know of swords, flexibility in blades has its degree of importance, and of course a well known display of high quality was in being able to bend the blade into a deep curve and have it return true at release of tension.

However, this was not the case in all blades as might be expected, and clearly their intended manner of use would be the key factor in its acceptability.

Well described on the dress of the sword, and its image as an accoutrement of status, office and wealth in with the wearer (great analogy of the Texas BBQ pistol!!! ). While these often notably decorated examples were worn by these figures as the dynastic symbol of the regime and personal augmentation, they were with notably sound trade blades as a rule.

In my opinion, the blade shown here in the OP while simple, seems to have a version of the Passau/Solingen running wolf, which may well be the mark as used on Caucasian blades. These 'wolf marks (ters maymal) are more an interpretation of the well known Solingen variations of these, and it is known that Caucasian blades were much favored in Arab trade.
This blade would be considered prestigious and regarded as well placed in a weapon of status.

We cannot say these long conical hilted sayf were not used in combat as required, it would be difficult to assert that, and they may have been in some degree. What is suggested is that these were not intended as a battle weapon specifically to arm a warrior in battle conditions. With the prevalent use of firearms of course, it was not a primary weapon in any case.

The main contention is that the very light, highly flexible blades which seem to have been made expressly for simple versions of these type swords used in the dancing were not used in combative situations. This is of course quite separate from those made with sturdy trade blades for the prestigious swords worn by Omani gentlemen.

It does not seem that the disparity between these two separate types of these Omani long swords should be such a point of contention.
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Old 9th November 2022, 12:18 AM   #35
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Well said Jim and informative as well. I think the flexible/bendy blades may have resulted from almost random consequences of the blade making process, i.e. the coming together of good steel, adequate quenching and proper tempering. It is difficult to get all three processes to coming together even most of the time given the simple facilities available to say the smiths in Kassala. I noted an experienced blade maker apparently air quenching a blade and then tempering it in water in a channel iron tray. Certainly not the way it's done on Forged in Fire.

In the "presentation of self" part I wanted to consider the sword as an Object rather than the Subject. As collectors and students of weapons we see the sword as the Subject made & used within an ethnographic context. But in its original context it is a cultural Object. The blade (imported or locally made) is a product that made by a Person, decorated & accessorized by other Persons, selected and used & worn by another Person and perhaps held dear by Others mainly within the initial cultural context. In several forum commentators, including your analysis, we get into the cultural context and this is the frontier of a more complete understanding.

Best,
Ed
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Old 15th November 2022, 08:55 PM   #36
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Forged in Fire is an interesting show, but do not think that making blades under time & material constraints to pass their extreme tests and their reasons for rejection has anything to do with reality of sword making.


p.s. - I recall the approach of the Zulus to Rorke's Drift in the film 'Zulu' they beat their shields with their Iklwa hilts and sounded in their hundreds like a train. The Romans did this too, to intimidate their soon-to-be dead victims. When they actually formed up and advanced to the battle, they did it in silence* - even more unnerving.
*- they did of course use trumpet commands, which the men obeyed instantly - in silence.
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Old 15th November 2022, 10:13 PM   #37
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Yep, both the "reality show" Forged in Fire and the film Zulu are/were scripted and edited productions that sacrifices reality to tell good stories. For me FIF uses the cooking show format to simulate reality. Zulu is a favorite, but I wouldn't have wanted to be one of the "live action" camera or sound men on the battlefield to get an accurate reality.

Best,
Ed
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Old 16th November 2022, 10:16 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Edster View Post
Yep, both the "reality show" Forged in Fire and the film Zulu are/were scripted and edited productions that sacrifice reality to tell good stories. For me FIF uses the cooking show format to simulate reality. Zulu is a favourite, but I wouldn't have wanted to be one of the "live action" camera or sound men on the battlefield to get an accurate reality.

Best,
Ed
Zulu numbers in the movie were not very many. They 'augmented' distant hilltop shots by having 2 real Zulus, additionally carrying another 6 cutout cardboard Zulus nailed to a board. I did like the movie 'gladiator' use of the Zulu chant recording just before the Germans attacked in the early battle. Actually, the movie's whole Rourke's Drift layout was not as real, and in the real battle most Zulu were killed at over 300-600 yards. Dead zulus in the movie were resurrected for later shots. There was no drunk preacher or soldier either. I hear the Zulu warriors had a great time making the movie.
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Old 18th November 2022, 10:12 PM   #39
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Hello Ed,

Allow me to go back to your observation:
Quote:
I think the flexible/bendy blades may have resulted from almost random consequences of the blade making process, i.e. the coming together of good steel, adequate quenching and proper tempering. It is difficult to get all three processes to coming together even most of the time given the simple facilities available to say the smiths in Kassala. I noted an experienced blade maker apparently air quenching a blade and then tempering it in water in a channel iron tray.
Could you please describe in more detail what the process was exactly?

Certainly quenching is generally done with steel even if there are lots of traditional approaches. Tempering is way more difficult to achieve consistent results with and often skipped in many cultures. It certainly can't be done in water - that must have been the quenching.

Quenching in air is only possible with some modern high alloy steels. If there was some time spent between the forge and dipping into the water for tempering, it may have been for de-risking the process and/or not going for maximum hardness. Both can make sense in an artisan setting (and the strategy chosen may be heavily dependent on experience with the specific type of steel available and being worked on). Some steels can be pretty forgiving and reach reasonable hardness with a range of conditions while others need to treated exactly right to obtain any decent quench.

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Kai
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Old 18th November 2022, 11:02 PM   #40
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Hello Kai,

My "instantaneous" image of the smith putting the blade in the water tray is an over 30 year old memory. As a "visual thinker" I am confident of what I saw, but the "frames" before and after didn't register, but I just assumed he was doing a part of a heat treat process. I wish I had paid more attention to the entire process or had asked more questions. Not all the swords the group of smiths there were "bendy" and I assumed that the bendy ones were the result an unplanned result of the combination the parent steel and the quench and temper. Sorry I can't really answer your question.

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Ed
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Old 20th November 2022, 12:00 AM   #41
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Hello Ed,

Sorry for my probing - just trying to document observations as much as possible for further research.


Quote:
My "instantaneous" image of the smith putting the blade in the water tray is an over 30 year old memory. As a "visual thinker" I am confident of what I saw, but the "frames" before and after didn't register, but I just assumed he was doing a part of a heat treat process.
Sure, dipping the blade into the water is the crucial quenching step.

Any tempering step (heating the blade back to low heat - exact temperature and duration are critical and specific for each steel.

I was just wondering about the step before the water quench which you described as "an experienced blade maker apparently air quenching a blade" - just in case you may remember anything on this. No worries if not, I realize it was a long time ago.


Quote:
Not all the swords the group of smiths there were "bendy" and I assumed that the bendy ones were the result an unplanned result of the combination the parent steel and the quench and temper.
Yes, quite possibly.

Did you get the impression that this was in general more of a hit or miss thing or did certain makers obtain more consistent results than others?

Regards,
Kai
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Old 20th November 2022, 12:28 AM   #42
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This has become a fascinating study on forging and metallurgy, which is most interesting as I admit I have little true understanding of these processes.
If I may, getting back to the Omani sayf......as one of the key elements of the Razha or sword dance in the Funoon is the theatrics.

The objective was to cause the sword blades to vibrate, in unison, causing a notably loud sound, along with the flashing bright blades. Is it POSSIBLE, that these blades might have deliberately been made to achieve this vibration for such performances?

It would seem that, given the numbers of potential variations of European and other trade blades found in many of these 'battle ready' sayfs, without standard quality control to achieve the necessary 'bendy' result needed for distinct vibration, it would have been quite a task to ensure all the 'warriors' had the proper 'bendy' blades to participate in the ceremony.

I think this might be the reason that, despite the consternation over whether these sayfs were used for battle or not, there just might have been examples made specifically for performances.
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Old 20th November 2022, 01:05 AM   #43
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Kai,

I don't recall any smith plunge a blade into an oil or water bath or see such a container, just the water tray I mentioned. No doubt I missed that part. The two days I hung around the Kassala smithy was my first experience among sword & knife makers. Even though I was/am a mechanical engineer, I likely didn't really understand all of what I was seeing. The goal of my anthropological investigation was "the social economics or sword & knife production" (what the various actors were doing and how much they could earn). Now I wish I had focused/documented more on the production process.

The smiths seemed very methodological and apparently knew what they were doing. They used no gages and all dimensions were my eye. They apparently had made so many blades that they may have been on auto-pilot; just felt the making rather than a step-by-step process. They began with a billet of spring steel, split it to add length and started the elongation process. The actual dimensions of the finished blade were ultimately defined from the size of the initial chunk of steel. The sword was contained within the original billet. Each smith used his individual skill/experience/magic to produce a finished blade to his satisfaction using the available technology. I think bendy or not was just how it turned out. I could be wrong in my ignorance.

Jim,
I think that once the dimensions of a dancing sword were known; like forte size, if any and blade taper & thickness, balance point, length, weight, whatever, a skilled smith could make bendy swords at will to the local cultural market. The Kassala smiths were making serviceable weapons to their cultural market and bendy was great, but not required.

Best,
Ed

Last edited by Edster; 20th November 2022 at 01:35 AM.
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Old 20th November 2022, 03:07 AM   #44
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Thanks very much Ed! I think your field studies in Kassala and Sudanese areas around have been some of the most valuable reports for not only the edged weapons there, but in general of that period. Your insights I think pretty much show that makers in Oman could have produced blades as suggested, for the ceremonies in the same manner.
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Old 20th November 2022, 02:59 PM   #45
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Thanks Jim,

Now that my initial field work is deficient in sword making tech, about 5 or 8 years ago I tried to contact my initial informant via a local NGO that worked with the suqs in Kassala. Many questions had emerged that only local knowledge could answer. Alas, at the time the powers in Khartoum nixed the Kassala staff from interacting because the Bega there were at odds with the Khartoum regime. These days I have no link.

Regards,
Ed
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Old 20th November 2022, 06:27 PM   #46
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Thanks Jim,

Now that my initial field work is deficient in sword making tech, about 5 or 8 years ago I tried to contact my initial informant via a local NGO that worked with the suqs in Kassala. Many questions had emerged that only local knowledge could answer. Alas, at the time the powers in Khartoum nixed the Kassala staff from interacting because the Bega there were at odds with the Khartoum regime. These days I have no link.

Regards,
Ed
That is a shame Ed, a very familiar dilemma it seems these days, but hopefully research and knowledge can prevail.
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Old 21st November 2022, 07:27 PM   #47
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This has become a fascinating study on forging and metallurgy, which is most interesting as I admit I have little true understanding of these processes.
If I may, getting back to the Omani sayf......as one of the key elements of the Razha or sword dance in the Funoon is the theatrics.

The objective was to cause the sword blades to vibrate, in unison, causing a notably loud sound, along with the flashing bright blades. Is it POSSIBLE, that these blades might have deliberately been made to achieve this vibration for such performances?

It would seem that, given the numbers of potential variations of European and other trade blades found in many of these 'battle ready' sayfs, without standard quality control to achieve the necessary 'bendy' result needed for distinct vibration, it would have been quite a task to ensure all the 'warriors' had the proper 'bendy' blades to participate in the ceremony.

I think this might be the reason that, despite the consternation over whether these sayfs were used for battle or not, there just might have been examples made specifically for performances.
Hello Jim, It is good to see a different angle being viewed on the Straight Omani Dancing Sword known as The Sayf. It becomes a little confusing as generally the local people will call any sword from almost anywhere in the world a Sayf! As discussed the dancer is very bendy..most examples can be gripped at the flat tip and the blade bent around to touch the hilt and released to spring straight . I recall reading that some blades were made around Lars and around the Gulf as well as some being made and sold by wandering Gypsies originally off the North West Frontier. Many blades were and are made at a factory in Salalah and demand remains quite strong for the cheaper style whereas anyone with more money could buy a more expensive model perhaps from further afield and some are seen worn by VIPs such as Tipu Tib perhaps the greatest Slaver ever... This did not change their use..and all Sayf were for Pageant only.

It is vital to consider The Funun as this allowed the Sayf to transition in design when the big curved Slave Captains Sword blade appeared from The African Great Lakes and given the name Kitara from the name of the country they were associated with... Bunyoro-Kitara which means The Kingdom of the Sword but it should be noted that these were originally short tanged so had to have an extension and a pommel added unlike dancing Sayf that were made from one piece. The blade was then given a built on long hilt identical to the Omani Saygas well as an Omani Scabbard AND The Omani Terrs buckler shield.

Members may be further wrong footed in thinking that slavery ended in the early part of the 19thC when in fact it was still going on there in the 1960s when Sultan Qaboos ordered it to cease and amalgamated slaves into the Omani tribal structue. They were allowed to select a surname as before that they were generally all called Juma...a single name with no known family or tribal structure.

Peter Hudson.
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Old 17th November 2025, 09:55 PM   #48
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I don't have my copy of "Swordsmen of the British Empire" to hand right now, but IIRC it contains an eyewitness account of a nineteenth century British navy attack on a Zanzibari/Omani slaving vessel where it is explicitly stated that this type of sword was used by the vessel's crew.

I also recall reading a travelogue through Egypt, Sudan, and the Gulf states from the 1950s/1960s where the writer describes a sheikh vibrating his sword blade. The writer made a point of noting that he had examined the sword beforehand and ascertained that the blade was extremely stiff and difficult to bend. He was at a loss to explain how exactly the trick was done. Both the writer's description and the accompanying photograph made it clear that the sword in question was an Omani saif.
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Old Yesterday, 12:52 AM   #49
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Exactly thats been kinda the elephant in the room. While there were ancient sword hilt forms in the Meditteranean that were well known in Arab context, and in many ways the Abbasid broadsword had characteristics that are seen on numerous 'conical' hilts, we cannot disregard similar forms extant in Africa.
The squared pommel is of course most well known, however there are examples of the 'minaret' style peaked pommels(as seen on the Ibathi swords of interior Nizwa in Oman), also many have the 'cuff' extending over the blade below the hilt.

I am not sure when the 'seme' originated, but it seems a dramatic coincidence it uses similar open hilt style and broadsword blade.

I would note here that influences traveled far via trade networks, and if we go farther west into the Sahara (recalling the Moroccan weapons which arrived as far east as Zanzibar)....think of the Manding saber of Mali.
Open hilt!! curved blade (as on kittareh).
The Manding were controlling trade factors in these regions.
We have already noted the open hilt broadswords of Sierra Leone and the western sector of Africa's slave trade. I have even seen these with 'kaskara' blades.
In the Sahara, even the Tuareg tribes had a curved blade version of their takouba known as 'aljuinar'. It seems plausible these were somewhat influenced by curved kittareh, and there was ready access to French military and other European blades.

Attached, the Manding saber of Mali; an Omani 'kittareh; the Omani sayf with conical hilt; the Maasai 'seme' .

The Maasai who are of course situated in Kenya, did move into Tanzania to the south, which was of course where Zanzibar groups were traversing these regions into those of the Congo.
While the seme traditionally has a more flared blade (almost spatulate) it is still a broadsword and clearly with open hilt, which does not seem to compromise its use. These are used in hunting, utility, etc.

Here I include the Omani sayf for context, showing that its form and these counterparts have intriguing similarities important and pertinent to its discussion.
Hello Jim, Nice to see this old topic appear again and quite understandable how some confusion has developed around Omani weaponry especially swords. I was, as Jim stated earlier, in the Sultanate of Oman actually for almost 40 years and served in their Army for a decade then became involved as an antiques dealer in guns like Abu Futtilla and Martini Henrys and bladed weapons like swords and Khanjars and refer you all to the epic debates that I was involved with on Forum on many of these Omani Weapons. I spent a long time looking at the various Omani Souks like Nizwa Buraimi Muttrah and Salalah as well as the old Forts and Museums ...and a lot of time with locals discussing these old places and their old weapons...What I can say is that in Oman it was as if time had simply stood still...It is a magical place especially the old historical sites and feels like a door had been left open and on entering these ancient places was literally like stepping back 500 years.

What I discovered about swords was and in as brief a note as it takes...was that we had it all muddled, not wrong exactly, but muddled...

Here are the weapons;
1. Sayf Yamaani. The Old Omani Battle Swordes way back to the time of The Prophet. Two Edged. Round Spatulate Tipped...good for chopping and slashing at close quarters...Straight blade with rudimentary Quillons and carried with a small round Shield. I put one into The Tareq Rajeb Museum in Kuwait.

2.The Omani Sayf. This was a sword used to salute the Ruler. For Parade...For celebration ...For Dancing...For mock fighting. It appears in the ancient Funnoon or celebrations and even has its own dance. It has a Two edged sharp blade and a round spatullate tipThe blade is extremely flexibleand will bend back from the tip to the hilt. The Hilt is conical and longSaaid The Great was a great believer in the use of this sword for the masses Tribal infantry to this day do a march past which is like a huge jogging dancing activity praising the ruler...blades shimmering in the air and some being tossed high in the air and caught etc etc. Sword in arabic is Sayf. This is the Omani Sayf. It is given the same shield as was the Sayf at 1. Even important dignatories carried this sword...thus hilts on some could be quite ornately covered. It has sometimes a hole in the pommel probably used to hang on a nail on a wall.

3.The Omani Kittarrah. I was discussing this sword with Jim by e mail and it suddenly struck me ...and him ... that what this was was involved in a discussion we were having about The African Great Lakes...I will cut to the point...Bunyoro Kittara was an important country in the African Great Lakes nd was greatly visitted by Omani Traders as well as Burton ... Book of The Sword fame...and it transpired that Kittara meant Sword and the first word.. Bunyoro meant kingdom so the country was in english The Kingdom of the Sword...Oman traded there big time in particular for Ivory Slaves Giraffe Horn and other goods fabrics and so on...thus the importance of Zanzibar...What came out of Bunyoro Kittarah more importantly for us sword enthusiasts was another blade probably a german Cavalry style but remounted on a long conical Omani hilt straight off the Omani Sayf...BANG!!!!!! A longer blade than the sayf this was curved and sharp on one edge. It was mounted with the Omani Sayf Hilt and carried with a small round Shield...It had a point. Not so flexible.. This was a fighting blade ...
As it happens Omani hunting parties and trading groups all carried these weapons which were identifiers at some distance as being Omani traders... thus were not attacked by local tribal patrols or groups...They had Carte Blanche operating rights in the entire counry of Bunyoro-Kittara.

I will pause here to allow questions...

Regards, Peter Hudson.

Some background threads can be found at Forum just press into search Omani Swords or Omani Shields or Omani Weapons...that should fetch up a load of stuff. ...

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Old Yesterday, 01:23 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Orang Lama View Post
I don't have my copy of "Swordsmen of the British Empire" to hand right now, but IIRC it contains an eyewitness account of a nineteenth century British navy attack on a Zanzibari/Omani slaving vessel where it is explicitly stated that this type of sword was used by the vessel's crew.

I also recall reading a travelogue through Egypt, Sudan, and the Gulf states from the 1950s/1960s where the writer describes a sheikh vibrating his sword blade. The writer made a point of noting that he had examined the sword beforehand and ascertained that the blade was extremely stiff and difficult to bend. He was at a loss to explain how exactly the trick was done. Both the writer's description and the accompanying photograph made it clear that the sword in question was an Omani saif.
Thank you for this, as it is a contemporary source from the time when these swords were used in battle. The fact that a century later they have become a purely ceremonial object does not change the historical evidence of their use.
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Old Yesterday, 02:38 PM   #51
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This is intriguing to see this topic, though typically contentious over some time in threads years ago and in debates, with such salient note.
These references noted (thank you Orang Lama) is most interesting, and offers insights into the conundrums of the Omani sa'if.

While these are important, it is equally important to wonder more on the actual circumstances described, considering that often these kinds of descriptions may have been based on somewhat compromised observations.

First I would note that the well traveled and observant Sir Richard Burton ("Book of the Sword",1884) described (and illustrated) the cylindrical hilt style Omani sa'if in his description of Zanzibar swords. An acclaimed swordsman, he noted he could not fathom how these swords could have been used combatively. No doubt he had seen these used in the typical ceremonies which were performed using these as part of same developed by the Omani Sultanate.

As we have discussed, the blades on the ceremonial versions were much lighter and more flexible , while the versions of these swords worn in a status oriented fashion were typically mounted with the heavier broadsword blades of trade blade type.

While these examples with the more substantial blades were likely the ones he referred to , and being worn by the Omani merchant/slavers in the interior where he encountered them, he still could not imagine them serving well as weapons as intended. Clearly these were worn as status accoutrements much as the khanjhar (actually of course more likely as bonified weapons).
The observations and indeed even the drawing of the Omani sa'if used in the "Book of the Sword", were actually lifted by Burton from the book on arms by Aguguste Demmin (1877). I have handled Burtons actual manuscript in which the very drawing was pinned to the page.

The important note in which some degree of misperception can be possible is the obvious visual confusion pertaining to these swords simply by assuming that all swords with this type hilt are the same. Clearly the ceremonial examples with the light, flexible blades when sheathed, would appear the same as the status oriented versions with standard serviceable blades to an otherwise uninitiated observer.

We have noted years ago that there was also a version of the open hilt Omani sa'if which was indeed used in the interior of Africa in the regions where the Omani slavers and merchants traversed in acquiring slaves and ivory.
This appears to have developed in the regions of Bunyoro-Kittara, which at that time was known as Kittareh, believed to be a dialectic term for 'sword'.
Burton notes in his book on travels into the interior that these typically were mounted with German cavalry blades (presumably curved).

This is apparently how the term 'kattara' became inexorably linked to the sword we have known in collecting as the Omani kattara. As Peter has pointed out, the term kitara actually refers to these open hilt swords with curved blades.

Is it possible that the weapons referred to in the reference describing the British encounter with a Zanzibar/Omani slaving vessel might be describing these KITARA versions of the Omani sa'if?
Were they described as long (typically over 32") swords? or was the description simply to the unique style hilt?

The travelogue describing the situation with a 'vibrating' blade (one of the deliberate stimulations in the Razha sword dance ceremony is having many of these vibrating producing an exhilarating buzz or whirring) begs the question....again...was the sword inquestion the same sword examined?
If the examination of the sword and the vibration took place at the same time, then it would be of course perplexing.

These are the questions I would pose, purely as devils advocate. Still I applaud the addition of these entries here greatly, and thank you again Orang Lama for adding them!
They serve as important references in further testing these matters.

All best regards
Jim
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Old Today, 03:27 AM   #52
Peter Hudson
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Originally Posted by Jim McDougall View Post
This is intriguing to see this topic, though typically contentious over some time in threads years ago and in debates, with such salient note.
These references noted (thank you Orang Lama) is most interesting, and offers insights into the conundrums of the Omani sa'if.

While these are important, it is equally important to wonder more on the actual circumstances described, considering that often these kinds of descriptions may have been based on somewhat compromised observations.

First I would note that the well traveled and observant Sir Richard Burton ("Book of the Sword",1884) described (and illustrated) the cylindrical hilt style Omani sa'if in his description of Zanzibar swords. An acclaimed swordsman, he noted he could not fathom how these swords could have been used combatively. No doubt he had seen these used in the typical ceremonies which were performed using these as part of same developed by the Omani Sultanate.

As we have discussed, the blades on the ceremonial versions were much lighter and more flexible , while the versions of these swords worn in a status oriented fashion were typically mounted with the heavier broadsword blades of trade blade type.

While these examples with the more substantial blades were likely the ones he referred to , and being worn by the Omani merchant/slavers in the interior where he encountered them, he still could not imagine them serving well as weapons as intended. Clearly these were worn as status accoutrements much as the khanjhar (actually of course more likely as bonified weapons).
The observations and indeed even the drawing of the Omani sa'if used in the "Book of the Sword", were actually lifted by Burton from the book on arms by Aguguste Demmin (1877). I have handled Burtons actual manuscript in which the very drawing was pinned to the page.

The important note in which some degree of misperception can be possible is the obvious visual confusion pertaining to these swords simply by assuming that all swords with this type hilt are the same. Clearly the ceremonial examples with the light, flexible blades when sheathed, would appear the same as the status oriented versions with standard serviceable blades to an otherwise uninitiated observer.

We have noted years ago that there was also a version of the open hilt Omani sa'if which was indeed used in the interior of Africa in the regions where the Omani slavers and merchants traversed in acquiring slaves and ivory.
This appears to have developed in the regions of Bunyoro-Kittara, which at that time was known as Kittareh, believed to be a dialectic term for 'sword'.
Burton notes in his book on travels into the interior that these typically were mounted with German cavalry blades (presumably curved).

This is apparently how the term 'kattara' became inexorably linked to the sword we have known in collecting as the Omani kattara. As Peter has pointed out, the term kitara actually refers to these open hilt swords with curved blades.

Is it possible that the weapons referred to in the reference describing the British encounter with a Zanzibar/Omani slaving vessel might be describing these KITARA versions of the Omani sa'if?
Were they described as long (typically over 32") swords? or was the description simply to the unique style hilt?

The travelogue describing the situation with a 'vibrating' blade (one of the deliberate stimulations in the Razha sword dance ceremony is having many of these vibrating producing an exhilarating buzz or whirring) begs the question....again...was the sword inquestion the same sword examined?
If the examination of the sword and the vibration took place at the same time, then it would be of course perplexing.

These are the questions I would pose, purely as devils advocate. Still I applaud the addition of these entries here greatly, and thank you again Orang Lama for adding them!
They serve as important references in further testing these matters.

All best regards
Jim
Hello Jim, Before I forget... There is a distinct difference in the two swords with Omani Long Hilts.
The Dancer...as I call it...is made with the tang....however the Longer bladed curved Kittara has an altered extended tang.and I never saw an original blade and presumeably German hilt except in a sketchof a slave trader and a line of slaves. It was therefor essential to extend the tang so the blade could accept the elongated handle.
I seldom saw the Kitaara or kattarah used in dancing but it was used in the UAE for this purpose ...It asnt possible to buzz the blade in quite the same way as the dancer blade... obviously with the thinner blade this was easy as the blade was very flexible.
In the Funnoon you were correct earlier when you mentioned the realistic fake fight /exercise ...which is called the Razha specifically for the thin buzzing blade where each opponent had the same task ...To score a winning point by touching the opponnets swordhand thumb ...with the flat spatulate tip of his sayf.
It cannot be over emphasised that to get anything included into the Funnoon was something that required Royal Assent...The Funnoon was a compendium of Music Dance and play acting with players using the prime weapons and swords Khanjars etc of the Omani people...and the mimickry of dancing /loading cammels, carrying of ships chests, Khanjar mimick fighting and this amazing RazhaSword Dance Fight...and the inclusion of famous songs , poetry and much energetic leaping about...A bit like pantomime but very much in the traditions of Oman and Her Culture.
In this way the traditions are underwritten as a testament to the famous history of the nation ....Anything enacted in the Funnoon was absolutely seriously adhered to...It was as if the acts depicted carried the royal warrant...Through this the ruler could raise the importance of an item to praise the Leader to that of absolutely powerful weapon ...way above what it may seem to us outsiders...
The Sultans wife...Sheherazad even designed the Royal Omani Khanjar and the hilt was transferred to the Royal Sayf Yamaani, as well as other items like the Royal Cammerbund...Readers can see from my report on The man himself... Saiid The Great ...He was the ruler that moved the Omani capital City to Stone town on Zanzibar. and it is against this formidable backdrop that I wrote...and thus with no regrets ...on the subject of the almost incredibly difficult to believe details on The Omani Kittarrah...A German Cavalry Blade from the jungles of The Great Lakes....
Regards,
Peter Hudson.
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