New kris book

Jean · 11th December 2021, 10:28 AM

There is a new kris book "Keris serumpun Bugis-Makassar-Melayu" written in Bahasa Indodesia by Ahmad Ubbé, the main author of the book "Senjata pusaka Bugis" which we already discussed in this forum.
Has anyone seen or read the book and what are your impressions? I can address you to a seller in Denpasar (Bali) if required.
Regards

Green · 11th December 2021, 12:08 PM

I received this book about a week ago. Have not read it properly but had a quick scan through the text. One surprise for me is the author's claim that the Bugis people originates partly from the migration of the Malays from Malacca among other places ; even before the fall of Malacca to the Portuguese in the 15th Century the Malays have traveled to Sulawesi, hence Bugis and Malays are "serumpun" (of the same people).

One complain I have with this book is that some of the pictures in the catalogue are a bit blurry.

Jean · 11th December 2021, 12:37 PM

Thank you Green and please tell us more about the book contents after reading it in detail. The pics which I have seen look similar to those from the previous book which I have mentioned, is it new stuff or not?
Regards

David · 11th December 2021, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green

I received this book about a week ago. Have not read it properly but had a quick scan through the text. One surprise for me is the author's claim that the Bugis people originates partly from the migration of the Malays from Malacca among other places ; even before the fall of Malacca to the Portuguese in the 15th Century the Malays have traveled to Sulawesi, hence Bugis and Malays are "serumpun" (of the same people).

Well, as i understand it, these are all Austronesian peoples, but the Bugis ancestors were already in Sulawesi long before Malays migrated from Malacca.

"The Austronesian ancestors of the Bugis people settled on Sulawesi around 2500 B.C. There is "historical linguistic evidence of some late Holocene immigration of Austronesian speakers to South Sulawesi from Taiwan"—which means that the Buginese have "possible ultimate ancestry in South China", and that as a result of this immigration, "there was an infusion of an exogenous population from China or Taiwan." Migration from South China by some of the paternal ancestors of the Bugis is also supported by studies of Human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroups."

Just a reminder that if you would like to know how to acquire this book such discussions should all take place in private messaging. Thanks!

Jean · 11th December 2021, 05:44 PM

The Dayak ethnic group from Borneo are also said to have Chinese ancestors and they differ from other Indonesian people, but this is not so clear with the Bugis.

Green · 12th December 2021, 05:50 AM

Jean;

I'm not sure when or if I'd ever read the book fully from cover to cover. This is nothing to do with this book per se, but I've never read any keris book from cover to cover. My main aim in collecting keris books is to see the keris photos as my reference of what a good keris should look like. And furthermore these days I don't have stamina to read 'technical' books and I have a whole library of books that I meant to read (for pleasure) but sadly would never have the the lifetime to read them all! (see pics of a small part of my home library ).

Having said that, this new book is a good complement to the earlier book by the same author (and others) "Senjata Pusaka Bugis". The new book has basically the same type of keris depicted and at least one for sure appears in both books.
The new book focus more on the close relationship of the Peninsula Malays and the Bugis people. The only 'drawback' is that the keris shown in the book are all the Bugis type from Sulawesi and none from Peninsula/patani as comparison and diffeerentiation, which is understandable as the photos are mostly fro the collection of the author himself who is a Bugis from Sulawesi and perhaps do not have collections of Malay/patani bugis keris.

Jean · 12th December 2021, 09:48 AM

Thank you Green, your comments are in line with my expectations about this book and I find the title is somewhat confusing as the book shows Bugis keris from Sulawesi only...

Regards

A. G. Maisey · 12th December 2021, 11:59 AM

That Malay origin is somewhat of a surprise to me too Green, every academic work that I have read concerning origins of SE Asian peoples places the ancestors of the Bugis people in south Sulawesi more than 2000 years ago.

Strange that so many recognised authorities should be wrong. Just goes to show you need to be careful what you believe.

But still, even if we set aside the idea of Malay migrations to South Sulawesi, the idea of "all one people" is truly accurate & in accord with the dominant theory of the peopling of SE Asia.

11th December 2021, 10:28 AM	#1
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	New kris book There is a new kris book "Keris serumpun Bugis-Makassar-Melayu" written in Bahasa Indodesia by Ahmad Ubbé, the main author of the book "Senjata pusaka Bugis" which we already discussed in this forum. Has anyone seen or read the book and what are your impressions? I can address you to a seller in Denpasar (Bali) if required. Regards Attached Images

12th December 2021, 05:50 AM	#6
Green Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Malaysia Posts: 312	Jean; I'm not sure when or if I'd ever read the book fully from cover to cover. This is nothing to do with this book per se, but I've never read any keris book from cover to cover. My main aim in collecting keris books is to see the keris photos as my reference of what a good keris should look like. And furthermore these days I don't have stamina to read 'technical' books and I have a whole library of books that I meant to read (for pleasure) but sadly would never have the the lifetime to read them all! (see pics of a small part of my home library ). Having said that, this new book is a good complement to the earlier book by the same author (and others) "Senjata Pusaka Bugis". The new book has basically the same type of keris depicted and at least one for sure appears in both books. The new book focus more on the close relationship of the Peninsula Malays and the Bugis people. The only 'drawback' is that the keris shown in the book are all the Bugis type from Sulawesi and none from Peninsula/patani as comparison and diffeerentiation, which is understandable as the photos are mostly fro the collection of the author himself who is a Bugis from Sulawesi and perhaps do not have collections of Malay/patani bugis keris. Attached Images

11th December 2021, 12:08 PM	#2
Green Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Malaysia Posts: 312	I received this book about a week ago. Have not read it properly but had a quick scan through the text. One surprise for me is the author's claim that the Bugis people originates partly from the migration of the Malays from Malacca among other places ; even before the fall of Malacca to the Portuguese in the 15th Century the Malays have traveled to Sulawesi, hence Bugis and Malays are "serumpun" (of the same people). One complain I have with this book is that some of the pictures in the catalogue are a bit blurry.

11th December 2021, 12:37 PM	#3
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Thank you Green and please tell us more about the book contents after reading it in detail. The pics which I have seen look similar to those from the previous book which I have mentioned, is it new stuff or not? Regards

11th December 2021, 05:44 PM	#5
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	The Dayak ethnic group from Borneo are also said to have Chinese ancestors and they differ from other Indonesian people, but this is not so clear with the Bugis.

12th December 2021, 09:48 AM	#7
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Thank you Green, your comments are in line with my expectations about this book and I find the title is somewhat confusing as the book shows Bugis keris from Sulawesi only... Regards

12th December 2021, 11:59 AM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	That Malay origin is somewhat of a surprise to me too Green, every academic work that I have read concerning origins of SE Asian peoples places the ancestors of the Bugis people in south Sulawesi more than 2000 years ago. Strange that so many recognised authorities should be wrong. Just goes to show you need to be careful what you believe. But still, even if we set aside the idea of Malay migrations to South Sulawesi, the idea of "all one people" is truly accurate & in accord with the dominant theory of the peopling of SE Asia.