French ? Crossbow , makers stamp on bow , rooster and stars ?? , model , dating ??

[phil.reid]

Hi Gents ,
have purchased a crossbow and wondering if anyones seen this armoury stamp before ?? looks to be a cockerel with 3 stars on inside of bow steel surface , so im guessing french
Any info would be wonderful ( owner had purchased ages ago from Wallis and Wallis but had no paperwork or memory of history behind this piece
Regards
Phil

[fernando]

Welcome to the forum, phil .
Nice crossbow you show us there.
A similar mark appears in a 17h century 'sophisticated' target example illustrated in page 104 of "Crossbows in the Royal Netherlands Army Museum", tagged as 'probably being Belgium',


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[phil.reid]

Thank you for your welcome, site looks great
Does anyone know the cockerel and stars stamp?? ive also listed a hunting sword with a kings head or green man deep stamp ive seen before but cant find.
Are there any good reference sites on European maker marks??
cheers
Phil

[Philip]

Originally Posted by fernando

Welcome to the forum, phil .
Nice crossbow you show us there.
A similar mark appears in a 17h century 'sophisticated' target example illustrated in page 104 of "Crossbows in the Royal Netherlands Army Museum", tagged as 'probably being Belgium',


.

Nando,
Agreed, Phil's crossbow is quite an attractive thing. Walleyes and Wallis used to sell some really good items back in the day. Looks like a good quality sporting weapon that a hunter might use on small or medium game.

Re the "target" crossbow in the exhibit catalog you posted -- I wonder what sort of targets the maker had in mind. That windlass is worthy of a battle weapon substantial enough to knock a knight off his horse...

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Philip

... Re the "target" crossbow in the exhibit catalog you posted -- I wonder what sort of targets the maker had in mind. That windlass is worthy of a battle weapon substantial enough to knock a knight off his horse...

Filipe, i did not dare judging on the crossbow typology, as would be a 'shoe maker trying to play the rabecão (you know the saying ?). However going back to my comprehensive catalog (rather a book) i stood with no doubt that the author knows what he is talking about. The so called (but not proven) English windlass, despite being a impressive apparatus, was undoubtedly used in target practice. Other auxiliary parts, as early as in this period, would complement these precision bows, like palm rests and, imagine, set triggers.


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[fernando]

Originally Posted by phil.reid

Thank you for your welcome, site looks great
Does anyone know the cockerel and stars stamp?? ive also listed a hunting sword with a kings head or green man deep stamp ive seen before but cant find.
Are there any good reference sites on European maker marks??
cheers
Phil

Not being (at all) an expert in these things, i can tell you that, the same mark appears again in page 122 of the same work, again on a windlass crossbow. Given that your example is so much different than those in the book, could it be that, (steel) bows themselves may be interchangeable, so that the one in yours was previously mounted in another (different type of) crossbow ? ... just saying .
Also to note that in this book section where marks are listed, the rooster & stars does not appear, confirming the author's uncertainty about is provenance being Belgium.
Concerning the mark on your hunting sword, i went through some sources and could not find it. Pity other members do not show up with an identification.
As for books on European makers marks, i guess there are not so many publications out there; a recurrent resource are listings included (often in the last pages of) books/catalogues, due to refer to examples contained in the said works; Wallace Collection, Armi Bianche Italiane, Real Armeria, Spanish Firearms, etc. A work exclusively on makers marks would be the so called "Stockel" (HAANDSKYDEVAABENS BEDØMMELSE), probably sold out, probably only in German ... and probably expensive.
There is an 'old' work, but still useful, called ARMOURERS MARKS by Dudley Gyngell ... if you can finf a copy.
You may also enjoy having a look IN HERE.

[phil.reid]

Thank you Fernando & Gents
nice to see another crossbow with same stamp. Yes the steel bow which is very well made could easily be be removed and were probably interchangeable
many thanks
Phil