The Flying Keris

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by Pusaka

Maisey thanks for that, I think this guy in Bali is a rarity perhaps because he is a Hindu these mantras have survived there. These mantras as I understand it are all vedic and I question their survival in Islamic Indonesia. They are most likely to be replaced with Islamic prayer and if so the whole efficiency is lost.
Same with the making of cimande oil, it requires vedic mantras to be chanted over it as far as I understand, how will a strict Muslim chant vedic mantra, again the temptation is to replace it with verse from the Koran.

I am curious about your comments. What are your sources? Or are you just espousing your personal opinions?

It was my understanding that Indonesian Islam is founded and intermixed with previous religions and varies that even though the majority of Indonesia is Islam, but syncretic with other religions.

Quite different from than the Middle East Islam.

So it could be, and possibly would be, Islamic prayer still be infused in the keris.

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

We must never forget that The Keris has the nature of a meru and as such it is an empty place waiting the entry of a spiritual entity, thus care must be exercised to ensure that whatever entity might care to take up permanent or passing residence in the keris is not of a negative nature.

"there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so."

I suppose - I am open to questions - that most keris were made for an individual, perhaps factoring in the person's status, possibly a scholar or military. As well as the person's numerology and other factors such as auspicious astrological events.

The finer keris may have been made to greater exacting standards. The more Beauty, in terms of the original custodian and those that follow - and the Beauty is always personal.

The greater Beauty has power as with all artifacts.

But the original pande whom made the keris infused the nature of the original custodian. That "nature" could be very positive for a scholarly individual, but might be very negative to a warlike individual and vice versa.

So, by the nature of the keris could affect present custodian, and as Alan Maisey so well said, there is a line of past custodians who have connected with the keris over time.

Personally, my fascination with the keris is that most were handmade. Imagine a dark hellish forge where the blade was made. Fire, hammering, folding, quenched and carefully made. Likely it would have been dark, so the pande could judge the heat by the color of the metal.

The blade was birthed in fire, smoke, noise. Then, is a very different setting, the dress was made. Different craftsman. Light, beauty, incense, quietude, the keris was clothed.

All these could have been done on auspicious events. It could and possibly did take years. Making a keris "right" would take time.

At some point in the process, the blade was cleaned, stained and anointed. It was renewed in yearly ceremonies. Dress was changed by the custodians many times during their lifetimes. Could be events of birth, puberty, marriage, even the fortunes of the custodians.

The dress is really just a dress. In the blade, the heart and soul resides.

Respect the blade. "respect" and "fear" are the same root word.

Think about this.

[Pusaka]

Originally Posted by Bill M

I am curious about your comments. What are your sources? Or are you just espousing your personal opinions?

It was my understanding that Indonesian Islam is founded and intermixed with previous religions and varies that even though the majority of Indonesia is Islam, but syncretic with other religions.

Quite different from than the Middle East Islam.

So it could be, and possibly would be, Islamic prayer still be infused in the keris.

Well I used to practice Silat and so learnt a few things regarding Keris through that, plus reading, plus Indonesian friends who sell and deal with keris.

As to the harmony in Indonesia between Islam and other religions you speak of...Nope!

Just one example below but you can find many

"Borobudur, Islamists target Indonesia’s most important Buddhist temple
by Mathias HariyadiThe complex, a UNESCO World Heritage Site, risks being destroyed like the Buddhas of Bamiyan. Authorities strengthen security measures. Citizens invited to participate in the defense of "cultural heritage". President Yudhoyono declares jihadist violence "humiliating" for Islam....."

http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Borob...ple-31946.html

You also suggest that a vedic mantra can be replaced by an Islamic prayer and the outcome will be the same, not so because it has everything to do with a knowledge of sound. The whole Science of mantra is based on sound, tone, melody and the effects these cause. You cannot replace these "formulas" (sonic compositions) with some Islamic prayer of your choosing and expect the same result.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by Pusaka

...

I was reading another thread on here where you say that you like to drench your keris in WD40, and then paint them with Sandalwood oil mix. I was always told you must not put unnatural oils on a live keris as it will kill it, the smoke and the oil is its food. I dont think it would enjoy WD40 what do you think?

Heck, I don't use WD40 on any weapon, it's OK for loosening nuts on other items, but isn't even a good rust preventative, mediocre at best. It dries eventually, leaving a residue.

I do use Ballistol, but not on my only kris...Smells nicer too, no known hazards to life.

[A. G. Maisey]

Well, I've just read through the posts that have been entered since my previous one.

It does seem that I need to set some time aside to respond to these posts, they are not the sort of thing that I can dash off a 3 minute response to, and I'll do that just as soon as I can arrange the time.

[David]

Well, i'm going to let Alan respond to these comments first.
But in the meantime, please refrain from adding political/religious controversy to these pages. Thank you.

[A. G. Maisey]

A warning:- this post is long, and for anybody who does not have a solid interest in keris and Indonesia, it will be very boring, so just give it a miss and move on to a different thread.

David, I have noted your request, and I shall do my best to comply, however, it may prove to be quite difficult to discuss matters which are by their very nature, religious, without mentioning religion. Politics I can probably skirt around, but once again, in order to respond adequately to some of the matters raised, accurate, defensible responses must inevitably touch on political matters.

However, taking the meaning of "controversy" as given by Oxford, I can most certainly avoid controversy, because I will not engage in any debate in respect of what follows.

Kronckew & Oils
I do agree with you in that Ballistol, and probably most other oils designed for firearms are far superior as protectants and/or lubricants than is WD40 and the traditional oils used on items of tosan aji.
But the reason I use WD40 is not because I want it to act as either a lubricant or a protectant. I use it to remove moisture and dirt. I use it as a cleaning agent.
WD 40 displaces water (WD = water displacer), as a drench it also removes dirt and the residue left by brushing with mineral turpentine and the accumulation of maintenance failure.
The process of cleaning tosan aji involves the use of water, as does the staining of tosan aji, and as does also the staining of damascus steel --- of which I have made a more than a little. If we simply want to clean up a lightly rusted blade, a soak or repeated drenching with WD40 will assist in removal of the rust. We can then work at mechanical removal, wash down with turps, use the WD40 again to remove the turps.
After the solvents in the WD40 have evaporated a light residue will be left on the blade, it does no harm, and then a protectant oil can be applied. With tosan aji that protectant oil is a base oil + a fragrant oil. This is not a good protectant, but it is a traditional protectant. Ballistol is vastly superior as a protectant, but no traditionalist would ever use Ballistol or any other oil with such a smell on a piece of tosan aji.

After applying the fragrant oil I wrap the blade in a plastic sleeve. I have blades prepared for storage in this way that have gone without any need for attention for more than 20 years. I live 25 meters from a salt water lake.

Before WD40 became available, which was probably in the 1960's where I live, I used a penetrating oil in the same way that I now use WD40. I think WD40 was originally developed by the US military as a cleaning agent for missiles.

We need to understand why we use WD40.

Indonesia and Tolerance
In the 19th century a couple of British ethnologists first coined the name "Indonesia, or "Indunesia" for the string of islands that were variously known as the Dutch East Indies, the Indian Archipelago, the Malay Archipelago, Nusantara and maybe a few more names. In 1945 Sukarno used the name Indonesia when he read the Proclamation of Indonesian Independence. Since that time "Indonesia" has been used as the short title for the Republic of Indonesia.

As a country Indonesia is young, and it embraces many cultures, it is quite incorrect to think of Indonesia as a coherent entity with everybody going in the same direction. Prior to Dutch occupation and control the islands of Indonesia were under the control of a large number of minor rulers. Throughout history we find that one political entity in the Archipelago will dominate for a time, and then be replaced by another. Since at least the 14th century the dominant culture in Maritime South East Asia has been Java. Today Java is the dominant culture in Indonesia, something that the peoples of the other Indonesian societal groups find to be somewhat difficult to accept.

So, when we speak of any Indonesian characteristic, such as religious tolerance, we really need to qualify that with identification of the segment of the nation of which we speak:- just lumping all Indonesian people into one basket named "Tolerance" is not at all a wise way to go.

When the political philosophy of Indonesia was established, its foundational tenets were expressed in the Panca Sila:-
1 BELIEF IN THE ONE AND ONLY GOD
2 JUST AND CIVILIZED HUMANITY
3 THE UNITY OF INDONESIA
4 DEMOCRACY GUIDED BY THE INNER WISDOM IN THE UNANIMITY
ARISING OUT OF DELIBERATIONS AMONGST REPRESENTATIVES
5 SOCIAL JUSTICE FOR THE WHOLE OF THE PEOPLE OF INDONESIA

The idea of belief in one God guaranteed freedom of religion, provided that the religion held to the idea of "One God". The religions recognised by the new state of Indonesia were:-
Islam, Protestant Christianity, Roman-Catholic Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism and Confucianism

This echoed the religious freedom that was present in the Golden Age of Majapahit, Majapahit accepted that a man had freedom to worship his God in his own way. So philosophically both the old Hindu-Buddhist kingdom of Majapahit, and the new state of Indonesia granted freedom of religion to all members of the community.

This restriction of the designated accepted religions created some difficulties. In Bali it generated the reshaping of Bali-Hindu into Agama Hindu Dharma, in Java it resulted in the vast numbers of rural people who still observed traditional indigenous beliefs, in nominating Islam as their religion. These people are popularly termed "Abangan", "bang" being Javanese for "red" in reference to the red soil from which they live. They are nominally Muslim, but in reality their beliefs are the beliefs of their ancestors, for more than 2000 years before them.

The Abangan people are thought of as "Islam Kartu Penduduk", that is "Identification Card Islamic" (in Indonesia everybody must carry an identification card). This is a major reason why Indonesia is the most populous Islamic nation on earth. Java is the most densely populated island in Indonesia, and one of the most densely populated places on earth. So, when we think of Indonesia as Islamic, we need to temper our ideas by taking account of just how many people identified in government statistics as Islamic are in fact followers of any strict Islamic code. As numerous authorities have commented:- Islam in Java is unlike Islam in any other part of the world.

In recent years Indonesia has seen the rise of radical Islam. We have seen a number of bombings and attacks on Churches and police stations, but it is very important to understand that these actions that have been taken by an infinitesimally small number of misguided people do not in any way represent the character of the Indonesian people, most especially do these actions not represent the character of either the Javanese people or the Balinese people. In fact, the common people of both these places are greatly grieved by the events that have taken place within their societies, but the general attitude is one of "acceptance".

There is good in the world as well as evil, in fact good cannot exist without evil, both must be present in order to achieve balance, further, good can be evil, and evil can be good.

So, yes, religious tolerance and religious freedom are inseparable from the guiding philosophy that founded the Indonesian state, and for at least the people of Java and Bali, this tolerance is an ingrained element of their societies, and of the character of individual people.

However in some parts of Indonesia there is a somewhat less tolerant attitude.

Those who have an interest in this subject of tolerance and intolerance in Indonesia will find plenty of information by asking Dr. Google a few pointed questions.

Here is a short list of relevant texts that will be useful in assisting understanding:-

Anderson Benedict R. O'G., "Mythology and the Tolerance of the Javanese", Cornell University, Ithaca,
New York, 1965

de Graaf H.J. , Pigeaud Th.G.Th., "Kerajaan-Kerajaaan Islam Pertama di Jawa", PT Pustaka Grafitipers,
Jakarta, 1986

Eisman Fred B. jr., "Sekala and Niskala", Periplus Editions, First Edition 1990,
ISBN 0-945971-03-6

Geertz Clifford, "The Religion of Java", The Free Press, Glencoe Illinois, (1960), Library of Congress
Catalogue Card No. 59-13863

Hadisutrisno Budiono, "Islam Kejawen", Eule Book, ISBN 978-602-95078-0-5

Koentjaraningrat, "Kebudayaan Jawa", PN Balai Pustaka, Jakarta, 1984
Mulder Niels, "Abangan Javanese Religious Thought and Practice", in Bijdragen Tot de Taal, Land- en
Volkenkunde # 139-2, 1983

Negoro Suryo S., "Kejawen, Javanese Spiritual Teaching", CV Buana Raya,
Surakarta, 2000

The Nature of the Keris

Contrary to popular belief the vast majority of Javanese keris that we find today were made as items of trade. Since about 1750 the keris in Jawa has had the nature of a requisite item of dress with the secondary nature of a weapon, a nature somewhat similar to the nature of the European small sword.

Where the keris differs from the small sword is that the people for whom the keris was intended have a very different view of the world to the view of the world that is usual for Europeans. Thus we find that in even the ordinary keris, made as an item of trade, there in usually an inherent talismanic value, that value is usually attached to the pamor motif, but can also be attached to the dhapur or form.

The way in which to understand dhapur is that the dhapur or form can be associated with particular stations in life or professions. For example, a keris with one of the kebo dhapurs can be understood as being favourable for a person who is in some way associated with agriculture or husbandry.

Popular belief has it that there are two possible esoteric attachments to a keris, the first is the tuah, the talismanic value of the keris. For example, pamor wos wutah (scattered rice grains) is an effective talisman against need, udan mas (golden rain) assists in the accumulation of wealth, and so on. It is important to understand that Javanese magic, like all Malay based magic, is sympathetic in nature.

The other esoteric attachment to a keris is the isi, literally, the content of the blade, that which dwells within the blade, and that isi can be either good or evil, and sometimes both.

The presence, and the effectiveness of both the tuah and the isi depends entirely upon the belief of the custodian of the keris, or upon the interaction between the keris and a person. The existence of both the isi and the effectiveness of the tuah is a product of human interaction with the keris, neither can exist without that interaction.

A very, very small number of Javanese keris were made as pusaka keris for a specific person. If a person wanted a pusaka keris he would first and foremost need to be a very wealthy person, and secondly the empu would need to agree to accept him as a client.

This second requirement could never be taken for granted, because if the empu could not read that potential client, he would usually reject the commission. The reason for the wealth requirement is that a pusaka keris requires observances, prohibitions, offerings, and slametans at specific points during manufacture. The empu is not making just another keris, he is making a shrine.

In Bali it seems that things were perhaps a little different. Much of Balinese traditional observance and belief was disrupted by the puputans, but it would appear that a greater proportion of Balinese keris were made on commission than was the case in Java, whilst the role of talismanic intent seems to have been far less. The Balinese keris was primarily a weapon, with a secondary role as an item of dress.

Indonesian Forge technology

Indonesian forge technology is primitive. At the present time in Jawa, most, if not all makers of keris have to greater or lesser degree copied European technology, but even so, most forges are not the dark, enclosed space that we associate with the European smith, the Javanese forge might be in a shed with perhaps only one side, and that one side will most likely be woven leaves.

If we look at the way in which many common smiths work, the smiths who make tools, reset springs, fit wheel rims and etc, those forges can be in the open air, under the shade of a tree, and the fire is most likely in a small depression in the ground, and blown by ububan, two tubes of bambu powered by big plungers that look like feather dusters, you can see this in the forge stele at Candi Sukuh:-

http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/CANDI...OTOSPAGE1.html

Understanding of the keris is not something that just sort of "happens". It requires continual dedication over a number of years and serious targeted study. If these things are not to one's liking it is perhaps better not to attempt understanding but simply to accumulate.

[Jean]

A long but very educative post Alan, thanks!
I am using either Ballistol or WD40 sprays for avoiding blade rusting and it works very well, contrary to the traditional scented oils. If I remember well I could not apply scented oil on a blade already treated with WD40 as it would not penetrate into the metal.
Regards

[Pusaka]

Rusting is the process of oxidisation or loss of electrons. Is it possible that those who do not want to add synthetic or petroleum based oils/preservers to their blades might find something in nature to provide some protection?

Some time ago 72 essential oils were evaluated for their antioxidant quality's, their ability to stop oxidisation. Clove oil was found to be the most potent so I guess the Japanese sword makers got it right. Unfortunately I do not like the smell of clove. Rose ranked 10th Ylang Ylang 14th, Wintergreen 18th. Of all the oils they tested Sandalwood had the lowest antioxidant value. Anise ranked 3rd...could be something to experiment with.

Wintergreen oil is traditionally added to coconut base keris oils to prevent the oil going rancid. This is perhaps what gives Ylang Ylang keris oil a kick that straight Ylang Ylang essential oil lacks.

I think in older times keris oils were not made from essential oils but be boiling all kinds of herb matter and flowers in coconut oil.

Jojoba Oil as a base although not commonly used as a keris oil is superior to coconut due to it being despite the name a wax that is liquid at room temperature.

Evaporation of these oils however needs to be prevented and placing the blade in a plastic sheath would be a good means to achieve this.


Clove – 1,078,700
Myrrh – 379,800
Anise – 333,700
Citronella – 312,000
Coriander – 298,300
Fennel – 238,400
Clary Sage – 221,000
German Chamomile – 218,600
Cedarwood – 169,000
Rose – 158,100
Nutmeg – 158,100
Marjoram – 151,000
Melissa – 139,905
Ylang Ylang – 134,300
Palmarosa – 130,000
Rosewood – 113,200
Manuka – 106,200
Wintergreen – 101,800
Geranium – 101,000
Ginger – 99,300
Bay Laurel – 98,900
Eucalyptus Citriodora – 83,000
Cumin – 82,400
Black Pepper – 79,700
Vetiver – 74,300
Petitgrain – 73,600
Blue Cypress – 73,100
Citrus Hystrix/Combava/Kaffir Lime – 69,200
Douglas Fir – 69,000
Blue Tansy – 68,800
Goldenrod – 61,900
Melaleuca ericifolia/Rosalina – 61,100
Blue Yarrow – 55,900
Spikenard – 54,800
Basil – 54,000
Patchouli – 49,400
White Fir – 47,900
Tarragon – 37,900
Melaleuca Cajeputi/Cajeput – 37,600
Peppermint – 37,300
Cardamom – 36,500
Dill – 35,600
Celery Seed – 30,300
Fleabane, Canadian – 26,700
Mandarin – 26,500
Lime – 26,200
Galbanum – 26,200
Myrtle – 25,400
Cypress – 24,300
Grapefruit – 22,600
Hyssop – 20,900
Balsam Fir – 20,500
Melaleuca Quinquenervia/Niaouli – 18,600
Thyme – 15,960
Oregano – 15,300
Cassia – 15,170
Sage – 14,800
Mountain Savory – 11,300
Cinnamon Bark – 10,340
Tsuga – 7,100
Valerian – 6,200
Cistus – 3,860
Eucalyptus Globulus – 2,410
Orange – 1,890
Lemongrass – 1,780
Helichrysum – 1,740
Ravintsara – 890
Lemon – 660
Frankincense Carteri – 630
Spearmint – 540
Lavender – 360
Rosemary – 330
Juniper – 250
Roman Chamomile – 240
Sandalwood – 160

[A. G. Maisey]

Jean, as I mentioned in my lengthy post above, I have used WD40 for a very long time.

If WD40 became publicly available in Australia in , say, 1965, it is certain that I have treated more than 2000 blades with WD40. I began treating all sorts of blades, keris included, with penetrating oil sometime between 1953 and 1960, as soon as WD40 became available I began to use that. Between 1953 and 1960 I would have treated perhaps a couple of hundred blades.

My keris collection began in 1953 with a gift of a collection from my grandfather, I still have some of those keris and other edged weapons, and they would have been treated several times with WD40 during the time I have had them.

I have never experienced any problem at all that is related to the inability of fragrant oils to penetrate WD40 or the penetrating oil I used to use. In fact several times prior to 1966 I used clove oil on my keris. I did this because at that time I was unaware of the oils used in Jawa for keris, but I had heard that Japanese blades were anointed with clove oil, so I jumped onto the clove oil cart.

I have not used clove oil on a blade in more than 50 years, however, some of blades that I anointed with clove oil more than 50 years ago still retain a very faint smell of clove oil that underlies the later applications of sandalwood and kenongo.

I do not know why your use of WD40 did not produce satisfactory results, and if you have no confidence in WD40 for whatever reason, it is best that you do not use it, but WD40 most certainly does work for me.



Pusaka, I greatly appreciate your detailed listing of the protective qualities of some natural oils, however, in the case of the oils that are traditionally used on keris in Jawa, this information is not really relevant. The oils that we use in Jawa are selected for social and cultural reasons, not really for efficacy as protectant barriers against corrosion. Of course whatever oil is used on a blade, there will be some protective effect, but in in Jawa, that effect is a side effect, not a primary objective.

Once a keris moves outside its Javanese, or other natural environment, it has been freed from the parameters that would apply in its place of origin, most particularly so where that keris is in the custody of a person whose objectives in having possession of the keris differ from the objectives of a person from the originating culture of the keris.

In other words once it has ceased to be a part of its originating culture and is being cared for by a person who does not understand that culture, any oil that gives some sort of protection is better than no oil at all.

As I just mentioned, I used clove oil myself many years ago, I used to buy it from a pharmacist. I do not find the smell particularly objectionable, but it used to go hard on the blades, even though I used it, I did not like it much for blade use.

Rose oil is an oil that is considered to be suitable for use on keris, it is not favoured by many people, but it is used.

Ylang ylang oil is definitely not used in Jawa as a traditional keris oil.

What happened with ylang ylang is this:- ylang ylang oil is produced from the same tree that provides kenanga (kenongo) oil, but kenanga oil is produced from the immature flower, ylang ylang is produced from the mature flower.

When minyak (oil) kenongo is used in keris oil, only a very small quantity is used, in the oil that I prepare that quantity is about 5%, its effect is to give a very sharp edge to the smell, and to reduce the sometimes overpowering sweetness of the minyak cendana (cendono - sandalwood).

Now, when keris interested people who live in countries other than Indonesia found out that minyak kenongo was a component of many traditional keris oils, they tried to buy it , but they found that they could not, however, a few of these people did the research and found that minyak kenongo came from the same flower as ylang ylang oil (the cananga odorata blossom). Because they had never smelt raw minyak kenongo they assumed that ylang ylang oil and minyak kenongo were the same. This was an incorrect assumption. Ylang ylang oil is vastly different to minyak kenongo.

In respect of wintergreen oil.
This oil is produced from a group of plants that are native to the Americas, it is most definitely not a component of any keris oil that follows a traditional Javanese combination of oils.
The traditional oils used in Jawa that use coconut oil as a base invariably go rancid and congeal on the blade, unless regularly replaced --- a requirement which is obviously quite beneficial for the people who sell ready to use keris oil.

[Bill M]

Fascinating! Not boring.

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

[B] David, I have noted your request, and I shall do my best to comply, however, it may prove to be quite difficult to discuss matters which are by their very nature, religious, without mentioning religion. Politics I can probably skirt around, but once again, in order to respond adequately to some of the matters raised, accurate, defensible responses must inevitably touch on political matters.

However, taking the meaning of "controversy" as given by Oxford, I can most certainly avoid controversy, because I will not engage in any debate in respect of what follows.

Alan, while i'm pretty sure you understood my meaning, the word "controversy" was key to that meaning. Nothing you have written is problematic and any way and i thank you for this detailed and informational response.

[A. G. Maisey]

Thank you David

[Pusaka]

Thanks for the classification Alan. With regards to the wintergreen oil there is also an Indian species of wintergreen Gaultheria fragrantissim (gandapura) I think it is also an ingredient used in the keris oils used in the royal palace collections.

[A. G. Maisey]

OK, got it.

Minyak gondopuro (or gandapura), I know that, it is used in massage oil and for relieving aches and pains. Never heard the botanical name until until you told me.

I've never heard of it as a component of keris oil, Karaton keris oil or otherwise, and my teacher and mentor, Empu Suparman was the ranking empu of the Karaton Surakarta prior to 1995.

The oil mix I use is the same as he used, except I use medicinal paraffin or sewing machine oil, he used cooking oil from coconuts.

But if it does stop coconut oil from becoming rancid, it could certainly be used in any number of oils, I guess.

EDIT

I just finished a conversation with a lady who has a background in traditional Javanese and Chinese medicine --- her family owns a traditional medicine shop and factory in East Jawa and she managed both for a number of years.

She was of the opinion that minyak gondopuro probably would stop coconut oil from becoming rancid. She had never tested this idea, but her experience with minyak gondopuro indicated that it could be likely that it would act as a preservative.

[Jean]

[QUOTE=A. G. Maisey]
I do not know why your use of WD40 did not produce satisfactory results, and if you have no confidence in WD40 for whatever reason, it is best that you do not use it, but WD40 most certainly does work for me.

Sorry Alan, I did not say that at all, on the contrary!
I just remember one case when I tried to apply a scented oil after treating the blade with WD 40 spray (and letting it to dry and wiping the excess with a cloth as usual) and the oil would not stick to the surface as if the WD40 had produced an impervious barrier. This was probably due to the scented oil composition and anyway I don't use them anymore.
Regards

[A. G. Maisey]

Please forgive my misunderstanding Jean.

I always allow the WD40 to dry at the very least overnight, then I apply more fragrant oil than is necessary with a varnish brush, I allow that fragrant oil to dry off over a couple of days, normally just stand it point down in the workshop, then I pat the blade down with a lint free cloth, work over the blade with an old tooth brush, and put it into a plastic sleeve.

Seems to last for as long as I wish it to.

[Pusaka]

Imperfect translation but found this:

"Coconut oil by the fermentation process will be broken down into acidic granules and other acids, prevention is to mix a little with Gandapura oil, the comparison: 100 cc of coconut oil can be used 10-15 cc of gandapura oil.
Besides sandalwood, kanthil, jasmine (jasmin) / kenanga can be used.

For the Yogya palace the ratio is 1: 1, meaning that 100 cc of coconut oil uses 100 cc of sandalwood oil.

For the solo method, comparison is 25 krengsengan oil: 10 parts of cananga oil: 3 parts of gandapura oil.

Weapon oil can also be used, but many keris esoteri experts say the use of mineral oil will greatly reduce the esoteri of the kris themselves, if not forced to use this type of oil is avoided. "

[Bill M]

I use Evapo-Rust for most items. It gently removes rust and cleans deeply. It is a water base, so I follow it up with a soak in WD 40 to removes any residual water.

Also electrolysis does a good job.

Important to soak the article completely for an even cleaning.

Still experimenting with staining solutions. Advice. I can get commercial only chemicals of any kind through a chemistry professor. So also advise. I am extremely careful with toxic chemicals.

[A. G. Maisey]

Your post #78 was interesting Pusaka, it is regrettable that David needed to remove the link to the original, but a link like that does break the rules.

However I used the link before it was removed, and I found that it linked to an arts & crafts shop in Jogja that I know quite well, it has been in operation for years. It is very nicely set up for tourists from outside Central Jawa. The info they have on the page you linked to is interesting and would possibly act as a nice little primer for a new comer to the keris.

I read the original text in Bahasa Indonesia, and your translation is near enough, at least it demonstrates that in spite of my statement in my post # 70 that wintergreen oil is :-

"--- most definitely not a component of any keris oil that follows a traditional Javanese combination of oils.---"

it can in fact be found in some mixtures of keris oil.

My statement was incorrect, I did not know that minyak gondopuro was wintergreen oil.

Minyak gondopuro is a common oil, but even so, it is not now an oil that I have heard of as a component of keris oils --- and I have heard of a lot of different mixtures, oils used on Karaton Surakarta tosanaji, and otherwise. Perhaps it should be used, if it prevents coconut oil going rancid.

The idea stated that unnatural oils can interfere with the "esoteri" qualities of a keris is not unusual. The word "esoteri" is a corruption of the relatively recent loan word from English to BI of "esoteric". In BI "esoteric" means exactly the same as it does in English, that is:-

" restricted to or intended for an enlightened or initiated minority",

and just as in English it is sometimes colloquially used to mean something that is associated with the hidden world.

When we read something like this, I believe most people would form the opinion that in the context of the keris, substances other than "natural" substances should not come into contact with a keris, and in the case of oil, mineral oil, being an "unnatural" oil, should not be used on a keris.

I have encountered this idea numerous times in Jawa, usually amongst the fringe dwellers of the Keris World, but respected authorities have also put forward this point of view. The people to whom I owe most of my knowledge did not subscribe to this point of view, and neither do I. Personally, I feel that such a point of view demonstrates a very poor understanding of the spiritual qualities of some keris.

However, that said, we must acknowledge that any spiritual or mystical qualities that a keris might perhaps possess are due entirely to the interaction between that keris and a human being, and if the human being is not at peace in his mind because he has not used the correct oil on his keris, then that interaction is subject to interference. The spiritual qualities that a keris might possess cannot exist in the absence of human input, if that human input is of a disturbed nature, then the reaction from the keris will be perceived to be similarly disrupted.

There are a number of keris belief systems, just as there are a number of religions, the beliefs of one person need not necessarily be the beliefs of another, we usually choose a belief system that we find agreeable to our own pre-existing ideas.

If this can be accepted, I suggest that those who find the idea of anointing a keris with other than a "natural" oil to be something that verges on Mortal Sin, then those people should immediately cease the use of any oil that might be able to be considered "unnatural".

We cannot be too careful with these matters of "esoteri".