Vasayan Kris Daga for comment

Rafngard · 2nd May 2018, 01:30 PM

Hello all,

I recently picked up this Vasayan (given the scabbard, probably Piney) kris daga, and the style has only rarely been posted on the forum so I though I'd share, mostly on this thread (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=kris). So I thought I'd share

The knife itself is about 14 inches (35.5 cm) long, the blade itself is about 10 inches (25.5 cm).

2 comments.
1) I'm surprised at how much it looks like a Luzon peice, except for a few details (iron instead of brass fittings, no end cap and peened tang, etc)
2) The riscosso is a lot thinner than the blade proper, which has almost diamond cross section.

3 questions.
1) Any thoughts on age? The horn panels on the scabbard say something like mid 19th cent - WWII, if I recall correctly.
2) Speaking of those panels, one is cracked and starting to separate from the scabbard (as seen in the blurry photo). Is there anyway to fix this? I'm tempted to superglue it...
3) The leather on the throat of the scabbard has also seen better days. I've seen "Mink oil" mentioned a few times on the forum, is this possibly something that could help?

As always anything comments/opinions are welcome.

Thanks,
Leif

Ian · 2nd May 2018, 06:50 PM

Hi Leif.

Interesting piece you have. The blade looks to be of Ilokano manufacture, showing the typical asymmetrical ricasso of the Ilokano wavy-bladed knives. However, the blind tang construction and the sheath are consistent with Visayan work. The hilt shape is not typically Visayan but suggests a Luzon or other Tagalog (Palawan?) origin.

I would agree that the sheath is 20th C work, but more likely pre-WWII rather than later. While the knife and sheath could be a convenient "marriage" of unrelated parts, I think you probably have an unusual Visayan knife, perhaps using an Ilokano blade, with an atypical hilt and dating from about the 1930s or 1940s.

Unusual mix of styles.

Ian.

Sajen · 2nd May 2018, 08:44 PM

Hi Leif,

very nice piece, congrats!

I would place your Visayan daga to the 19th century, at youngest very early 20th century, I think like this with reference to this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=binangon (see post #10)
It seems that the scabbard is original to the knife so my age guess. Mink oil or linseed oil would be good for the horn sheet, the leather look not like it is to save for much longer.
I've attached the both pictures from the from you mentioned thread which are relevant.

Regards,
Detlef

Ian · 2nd May 2018, 10:12 PM

Hi Detlef:

I agree that Leif's daga is a bit older than his estimate, but I don't think it is 19th C. Zelbone, who used to post here, had some interesting observations about this type of sheath with pig skin at the throat and interdigitating segments of horn. Zel thought that this sheath style originated in the 1890s and was particularly common in the 20th C pre-WWII. Unfortunately, his comments were on the old UBB Forum which is now defunct. It is possible that Leif's knife is from the very late 19th C, but I think it is actually from a bit later.

The three wavy-bladed Visayan swords/knives you show are interesting also. For reference I've labeled them A, B, C (see attached copy of your pic).

I think the sword length blade (A) is of Moro manufacture that has been shortened and fitted with a Visayan deity hilt from Panay and a Visayan scabbard.

Example B has a nicely made blade that could be Moro or Ilokano in origin. The terminal tip looks more Ilokano to me.

Example C could be a Moro blade but has definitely had some modifications to the tip to present a more dagger-like appearance.

It is interesting to note that even though these are Visayan pieces, A and B have the luk oriented in the traditional manner for a keris/kris--that is, with the tip of the blade pointing down. Example C has a horizontal orientation of the tip. Sometimes one sees the terminal tip pointing upwards on these Visayan and Luzon pieces. Non-traditional orientations seem to reflect a Western (Spanish ?) influence. Leif's knife has an upward pointing tip.

Leif's blade, with a prominent asymmetric ricasso, looks definitely Ilokano to me.

Ian.

Rafngard · 2nd May 2018, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Leif's blade, with a prominent asymmetric ricasso, looks definitely Ilokano to me.

Mine is certainly the only one of those pictured that has much or a ricasso. It's also a lot thinner than the rest of the blade. Probably by half. The central ride on the waved section is really tall. I'll see if I can get a good picture of it tonight

Oh, and to clarify something, in my estimate of age I meant somewhere between mid 1800s and WWII. I thing I've read somewhere on this forum that the style of sheath (with the interdigitating segments of horn) was produced in that time range, but I could be misremembering. I love this style regardless.

Thanks,
Leif

2nd May 2018, 08:44 PM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Hi Leif, very nice piece, congrats! I would place your Visayan daga to the 19th century, at youngest very early 20th century, I think like this with reference to this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=binangon (see post #10) It seems that the scabbard is original to the knife so my age guess. Mink oil or linseed oil would be good for the horn sheet, the leather look not like it is to save for much longer. I've attached the both pictures from the from you mentioned thread which are relevant. Regards, Detlef Attached Images Last edited by Sajen; 2nd May 2018 at 11:40 PM.

2nd May 2018, 10:12 PM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Hi Detlef: I agree that Leif's daga is a bit older than his estimate, but I don't think it is 19th C. Zelbone, who used to post here, had some interesting observations about this type of sheath with pig skin at the throat and interdigitating segments of horn. Zel thought that this sheath style originated in the 1890s and was particularly common in the 20th C pre-WWII. Unfortunately, his comments were on the old UBB Forum which is now defunct. It is possible that Leif's knife is from the very late 19th C, but I think it is actually from a bit later. The three wavy-bladed Visayan swords/knives you show are interesting also. For reference I've labeled them A, B, C (see attached copy of your pic). I think the sword length blade (A) is of Moro manufacture that has been shortened and fitted with a Visayan deity hilt from Panay and a Visayan scabbard. Example B has a nicely made blade that could be Moro or Ilokano in origin. The terminal tip looks more Ilokano to me. Example C could be a Moro blade but has definitely had some modifications to the tip to present a more dagger-like appearance. It is interesting to note that even though these are Visayan pieces, A and B have the luk oriented in the traditional manner for a keris/kris--that is, with the tip of the blade pointing down. Example C has a horizontal orientation of the tip. Sometimes one sees the terminal tip pointing upwards on these Visayan and Luzon pieces. Non-traditional orientations seem to reflect a Western (Spanish ?) influence. Leif's knife has an upward pointing tip. Leif's blade, with a prominent asymmetric ricasso, looks definitely Ilokano to me. Ian. Attached Images

2nd May 2018, 01:30 PM	#1
Rafngard Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Minneapolis,MN Posts: 340	Vasayan Kris Daga for comment Hello all, I recently picked up this Vasayan (given the scabbard, probably Piney) kris daga, and the style has only rarely been posted on the forum so I though I'd share, mostly on this thread (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=kris). So I thought I'd share The knife itself is about 14 inches (35.5 cm) long, the blade itself is about 10 inches (25.5 cm). 2 comments. 1) I'm surprised at how much it looks like a Luzon peice, except for a few details (iron instead of brass fittings, no end cap and peened tang, etc) 2) The riscosso is a lot thinner than the blade proper, which has almost diamond cross section. 3 questions. 1) Any thoughts on age? The horn panels on the scabbard say something like mid 19th cent - WWII, if I recall correctly. 2) Speaking of those panels, one is cracked and starting to separate from the scabbard (as seen in the blurry photo). Is there anyway to fix this? I'm tempted to superglue it... 3) The leather on the throat of the scabbard has also seen better days. I've seen "Mink oil" mentioned a few times on the forum, is this possibly something that could help? As always anything comments/opinions are welcome. Thanks, Leif Attached Images

2nd May 2018, 06:50 PM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Hi Leif. Interesting piece you have. The blade looks to be of Ilokano manufacture, showing the typical asymmetrical ricasso of the Ilokano wavy-bladed knives. However, the blind tang construction and the sheath are consistent with Visayan work. The hilt shape is not typically Visayan but suggests a Luzon or other Tagalog (Palawan?) origin. I would agree that the sheath is 20th C work, but more likely pre-WWII rather than later. While the knife and sheath could be a convenient "marriage" of unrelated parts, I think you probably have an unusual Visayan knife, perhaps using an Ilokano blade, with an atypical hilt and dating from about the 1930s or 1940s. Unusual mix of styles. Ian.