Spanish Model 1840 Cavalry Sword ?

[drac2k]

The best that I can come up with is a Spanish 1840 cavalry sword, but based on the few examples that I could find, there are some glaring discrepancies; The handle looks to be leather with copper wires, not ray skin with brass wires.The blade looks unlike the examples that I viewed, and the obvious, an extremely long and heavy sword, marked "Artillery."
So I'm not sure if this is a newer sword(21st century), or a modern copy.Any help would be appreciated.

[fernando]

You may relax on the Artilleria term. This is not to indicate this type of sword but it was a mention sometimes appearing in Toledo blades during this period, as by then the Artillery Corp. was in charge of this factory..
... And according to Marceló Rubí in his ARMAMENTO PORTATIL ESPAÑOL, there are two types of hilt on this cavalry sword, one being like the one you show here; but in both versions the wooden grip is covered with either leather or coarse skin.
So it looks like your example is the real thing
And, by the way, the blade should measure 885 mm. in length and 25 mm. width. and a 15 mm. flecha (curvature).
Still that RV stamp is rather intriguiging and could question some assessments made.


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[fernando]

In a second reading of Barcelós work, one finds it not so easy to distinguish these saber models. Apparently a model 1841, not detailed or pictured, was listed in Royal Ordnances, one resembling earlier model 1832. However besides model 1840 for Cavalry officers, the one i previously quoted, there was also a model 1840 for Cavalry troopers. The differences noted are the blade width, with 30 mm, and shorter grip, this one with 140 mm., compared with 148 mm of the officers version.
The crowned RV riddle continues, though.


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[drac2k]

Thank you for your great information !You are spot on in your measurements of 25 mm wide and 885 mm long blade.I searched the internet and I could only find one reference of a similar mark.
I found an interesting site, under "wantslist," with an example, claiming that he is interested in purchasing swords with the crown and an RV underneath it, but he doesn't divulge the meaning.


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[M ELEY]

Could this model have been exported to another country, such as one of the S. American regions? As with many exports, the model shape remains the same, but with different ordinance markings, rulers, etc. The m1803 British cutlass saw export and markings for the Swedish monarch initials under a crown. The Belgiun flintlock boarding pistols by ELG were freq exports, with other monarch initials, inspection stamps, etc...

[Gonzalo G]

It looks almost identical to the trooper light cavalry saber model 1840, if for the "belly" on the hilt, since the photograph, as per Vicente Toledo Momparler´s book Espadas Españolas Militares y Civiles (Military and Civilian Spanish Swords), the part of the hilt covered in leather is less rounded in the "belly". That kind of more pronounced "belly" is found on the hilt of the artillery officer´s sabre model 1842. But that is not an important feature, since there were small variants in those years. It is perfectly possible that, in those years of disarray in the Spanish ordinance models, this slightly more pronounced hilt could be used in the making of the light cavalry sabers, but for the reast they are very different weapons.

The light cavalry saber model 1840 was widely used by the Hussars of the Princess, which were made famous for their relevant role in the Campaign of Africa, carried by the General Juan Prim y Prats, Count of Reus, Marquis of Los Castillejos and Viscount of Bruch. The princess in question was Isabel Maria Luisa, the future queen Isabel II of Spain. The original, as per Momparler´s book, had a width of 29 milimeters and a blade lenght of 875 milimeters.
I would say it is the same saber. As per beign some sort of duplicate, I can´t tell without having it on my hands.
Regards

[fernando]

But .. what about the initials RV, Gonzalo ?

[Gonzalo G]

I don´t have definitive knowledge about this stamp, so I can only speculate. The crown seems to be an independent mark from the initials. They are not made by the same tool, otherwise the crown and the initials would be more close and centered with respect to each other. It is possible that the RV initials are a latest addition. In 1873 was proclamated the first Spanish republic. The new republican government ordered the suppression of all names related with the monarchy. The Regiment of Husssars of the Pincess changed its denomination to Regiment of Villarobledo (Regimiento de Villarobledo). This the initials RV could mean just this name, meanwhile the crown could be the original mark.
Regards

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Gonzalo G

...The crown seems to be an independent mark from the initials. They are not made by the same tool, otherwise the crown and the initials would be more close and centered with respect to each other. It is possible that the RV initials are a latest addition...

Good shot, Gonzalo.

[drac2k]

Thank you for the very helpful information that you have provided and while your explanation of the "RV," stamp makes sense, I feel that based on your mention of the suppression of all things related to the monarchy that the crown would have been struck or disfigured, certainly not placed side by side.

[Gonzalo G]

It could be argued several explanations for the maintenance of the crown, from economic and logistic, to political. In an ideal situation, the crown could be erased, but not necessarily. If I continue speculating, we must take in account: first, that the crown was part of the coat of arms of the first Spanish republic, so it was not indispensable to erase it; second, that the erasing would have more cost and delayings in their delivery back to the cavalry units, in a situation of eminent military danger, and third, the republic only lasted less than two years, with the government embattled amid chaos and financial paucity, which could explain a hasty re-marking of the swords. And don´t forget that an important part of the army still retained their loyalty to the monarchy, as it was proved by the coup d´etat from the General Arsenio Martínez Campos, which conducted to the Borbonic restoration in 1874. It would not be strange that the army only reluctantly re-marked the swords without erasing the crown, specially without the close supervision from the weak government.

Of course, all this is only speculation, but it can point to a possible explanation, in absence of more solid factual/documental data. Take it as a work hypothesis to start with, meanwhile it can be found more information on this subjet.
Regards

[drac2k]

Thanks again for your well thought out reply.

[drac2k]

The crown with the "RV," under it has been driving me little nuts lately so how about a crazy theory?
In the Spanish Colonial Philippines in 1897, the troop numbers were approximately 26,032 Spaniards, 17,032 Native troops, and 2857 Volunteers. The One Battalion Carabineros were volunteer riflemen comprised of 14 Spanish Officers and 415 Native troops.Volunteer Regiment in Spanish is Regimiento de Voluntarios, hence (maybe, hopefully, possibly}, "RV;"does this make any sense?

[Andreas]

Originally Posted by drac2k

The crown with the "RV," under it has been driving me little nuts lately so how about a crazy theory?
In the Spanish Colonial Philippines in 1897, the troop numbers were approximately 26,032 Spaniards, 17,032 Native troops, and 2857 Volunteers. The One Battalion Carabineros were volunteer riflemen comprised of 14 Spanish Officers and 415 Native troops.Volunteer Regiment in Spanish is Regimiento de Voluntarios, hence (maybe, hopefully, possibly}, "RV;"does this make any sense?

The Mod. 1840 was replaced by the Mod.1860, and that by the Mod.1895, so I suppose it is unlikely that it was still in use in 1897. But there is the Regimiento Villaviciosa, a Lancers Regiment during the 1850s and 1860s, today a Light Armoured Cavalry Unit.
Andreas

[drac2k]

Thanks for the information; it sounds like a very plausible theory to me for a sword dated 1849.

[Gonzalo G]

Still, those sabers were not issued with a crown stamped on the handguard, as far as I know. The fact that this item has the crown stamped, points to a cavalry unit assigned to escort a member of the royal house. But again, this is only a logic exercise, not a fact.

Regards