The Flying Keris

[NotoriousCal]

Originally Posted by lelang69

magic, genie, angel, god, flying keris, walking keris whatelse belive it or not or dummy or fool

loving god (magical power) and his propet is amazing faith ( I belive in god very much), is it dummy or fool?

according to me please respect the defference belive or faith. someone belive that keris can fly (respect it). malay, javanese and other southeast asia belive keris has magical power (respect it please). once US seller in Ebay said his keris has genie (please respect it). buy it if you belive, don't buy it if you don't. gitu saja kok repot ( please take it easy).

one day one said don't buy keris because of the magic or story (don't belive what he said as long as he is a javanese malay or other southeast asian) but you must respect it.

one day US seller on Ebay said that his keris has genie and other said " guinea or pig or hog" please don't condamed it but respect it

but one who said org , pig or guinea is hog itself. Respect it.

but the important is please respect each other so that keris can't killed human being but keris is loved by humanbeing. belive it.....

The man belive god as their savior and respect the keris as the masterpiece is not the pig or guinea (One said) but the wise man who belive there is other power exept our fool brain, please respect and belive it.

I have to question your motives behind your statements.
There are always times in life where one has to cast judgment. Your approach seems to be motivated by a shared belief. I'm looking for an objective opinion when looking for truth. Beliefs don't concern me at all when facts and hard earned money is concerned. Beliefs are not tangible but money is. By your comments I don't expect you to understand this.
If there where such objects that can bestow blessings, why do sellers sell them for money? Seems very deceptive and I don't respect deception.

[NotoriousCal]

Originally Posted by David

Lelang, your call for respect should be well heeded, however i do not see any lack of respect voiced in this thread. There are certainly many mysteries in the world and one would be foolish to scoff outright at the possibilities. I personal try to keep an open mind while still maintaining a touch of skepticim lest i become someone elses fool. Unfortunately the realm of magick and mysticism has become a tool for the unscrupulous and (in some cases) criminal. For me it is not a matter of whether or not the keris can hold a mystical or magickal current. The question for me is does THIS keris that someone is trying to sell to me hold any such energy or am i just being treated to a nonsense story to grab my interest and convince me that i should buy the keris. Unfortunately most often i fear this is the case when we read about "powerful" keris being sold at auction. Faith is a beautiful thing and i truly respect it and the rights of others to believe whatever they see fit. Blind faith, however, leads to gulibility, and many people have been taken in this way over the years. The story that Alan Maisey has revealled here is a true one. He knows the inside story on this particular deal and the fact remains that this buyer was fooled. If one wants to believe something someone will always find a way to prove it to them, even if it isn't so, if there is money to be made. Those who choose not to question are easily fooled. An open mind must flow both ways. This story does not teach us that we should not believe that a keris can fly, just that keris did not.

I appreciate your comments and I strongly agree.

[zeus74]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Eb_3tpNii7k

[David]

Zeus, should i read your use of the tongue-out emoticon to mean that you present this video as a joke or as serious proof of flying keris.

[Jean]

Nylon wires and puppeters?

[kronckew]

magnets

[zeus74]

Originally Posted by David

Zeus, should i read your use of the tongue-out emoticon to mean that you present this video as a joke or as serious proof of flying keris.

this is nothing. maybe it's just a trick or somewhat.. there's story in java, when majapahit storming keraton giri gresik the kris of sunan giri which have dapur kalamunyeng flying attacking the invaders.

[David]

Originally Posted by zeus74

this is nothing. maybe it's just a trick or somewhat.. there's story in java, when majapahit storming keraton giri gresik the kris of sunan giri which have dapur kalamunyeng flying attacking the invaders.

Zeus, belief is a powerful thing and it certain drives a great deal of the mystical side of keris culture. That said, i can almost (for how can one be absolutely sure about anything) guarantee that what is shown on this video is indeed a trick. I know numerous stage magicians who could do this trick even better. There are indeed many legends surrounding keris, some of which deal with flying. It makes little sense to discuss these legends here, however, as they will never be proven as fact or be seen as anything beyond legend or speculation. Legend surrounds blades in many other cultures as well. There is the wonderful legend of King Arthur pulling the sword Excalibur from the stone for one. Here is a list of "magic" weapons from all around the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_magical_weapons
These are great stories to tell our children, but what do they actually teach us about keris, it's intention, purpose or place in society and culture?
I have deleted all of you other posts in the moderation queue Zeus. Your first one was a link to a commercial Facebook site where people seem to be trying to sell mostly poorly identified low quality keris. Please understand that we are NOT a commercial site and if you have read the rules of this forum you would know that posting links to commercial pages here is strictly forbidden.
I deleted you other posts with links to youtube videos that you marked a "entertainment" because some had absolutely nothing to do with keris while others were more unprovable mystical entries, such as the man supposedly using keris and magic to mysteriously locate a hidden keris blade buried under a rock. The most obvious possibility being that he buried it there himself to be "magically" discovered later, no?
Please understand that it is not that we outright dismiss the mystical side of keris culture and philosophy here, but videos like the ones you were attempting to share for "entertainment" value are not the kind of things that are of any value for serious study of the keris. And any commercial links are completely unacceptable on this page. Thanks for understanding.

[zeus74]

sure, you can find artsy keris in madura and middle java. about low quality keris, better explore names at group directly and find keris that qualified as art works. in this case, how the west and native people have value-judgement is completely different. keris is the highest culture in java and only can comprehend under holistic manner. i don't mean this as post-colonial perspective.

i guess it's my last post

[David]

Originally Posted by zeus74

sure, you can find artsy keris in madura and middle java. about low quality keris, better explore names at group directly and find keris that qualified as art works. in this case, how the west and native people have value-judgement is completely different. keris is the highest culture in java and only can comprehend under holistic manner. i don't mean this as post-colonial perspective.

i guess it's my last post

Zeus, whether this is your last post or not is completely up to you. But i will say that you seem to have misunderstood what my criticisms of you posts actually were. This is not a matter of differing cultural value judgements. We simply do not discuss or post commercial links on this forum and the purpose of the forum is purely for study and knowledge, not to sell keris or discuss where one might buy keris.
I completely agree that keris is a part of the highest cultural aspects of Jawa and that it most certainly cannot be understood in a vacuum. Holistic methods of comprehending keris is of the utmost importance. However, trick videos claiming to show keris flying are at best an entertaining distraction to our deeper understanding of the subject.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by David

Z... There is the wonderful legend of King Arthur pulling the sword Excalibur from the stone for one. ...

...which makes more sense if you consider it a leftover from an earlier legend from the bronze age when they DID 'pull swords out of the stone' molds.

[Pusaka]

I dont believe keris can fly but I do believe they can rattle.

[David]

Originally Posted by Pusaka

I dont believe keris can fly but I do believe they can rattle.

Well that settles that then...

[Pusaka]

Originally Posted by David

Well that settles that then...

Did I mention that I have twice witnessed keris rattling

[A. G. Maisey]

I've seen that myself, several times.

Usually associated with a keris in a poorly fitting wrongko that has been subjected to vibrations caused by an earth tremor or a strong wind, or a heavy truck driving past the house.

I witnessed all the examples I have given.

Or maybe the wrongko did not particularly like the intrusion of a strange keris. Wrongkos can be touchy little devils, being female as they are, and it is known that some wrongkos will only accept the keris for which they were intended, and reject all forced marriages.

[Pusaka]

The first time I seen a keris rattling was at a gurus place, actually it was unfortunate because the keris started rattling precisely as I walked into the room and approached him. I looked at the keris on the wall and I could see the guru also noticed it but his body language was strictly "I dont want to talk about it and dont ask me about it" so we both stood there ignoring the keris rattling on the wall. This guru thought I was somewhat demonic and lets just say we didnt have a long relationship


The second occasion,not really an occasion because it lasted over two years.
I lived with a keris that would rattle very often and it became very normal, even annoying at times. I had heard some teachings about the esoteric aspect of the keris and I managed to understand the ritual even though I was only told parts of it. So I tried it I had a friend make me a keris and to make it extra special I gave him a small meteorite that I wanted incorporated into the blade.

When I received the blade I began preforming the ritual every night with the keris with the idea of bringing the blade alive. After about a month of doing this every night before going to bed I placed the blade next to my bed on a bedside cabinet resting on a hardback book. I went to sleep and was woken in the middle of the night by the keris rattling next to my bed. It freaked me out at first but then I thought its what you wanted isn't it. Anyway I lived for a whole two years with this keris frequently rattling and got very used to it, actually for a while I thought of it like a pet. I would get very annoyed on occasion when it would wake me up late at night or early in the morning. I actually put it out in the hallway once I had enough of its behaviour.
After about two years of not "feeding it" it slowly stopped rattling but during that time it was entertaining at first and I made several experiments with it.

[satsujinken]

Originally Posted by Pusaka

The first time I seen a keris rattling was at a gurus place, actually it was unfortunate because the keris started rattling precisely as I walked into the room and approached him. I looked at the keris on the wall and I could see the guru also noticed it but his body language was strictly "I dont want to talk about it and dont ask me about it" so we both stood there ignoring the keris rattling on the wall. This guru thought I was somewhat demonic and lets just say we didnt have a long relationship


The second occasion,not really an occasion because it lasted over two years.
I lived with a keris that would rattle very often and it became very normal, even annoying at times. I had heard some teachings about the esoteric aspect of the keris and I managed to understand the ritual even though I was only told parts of it. So I tried it I had a friend make me a keris and to make it extra special I gave him a small meteorite that I wanted incorporated into the blade.

When I received the blade I began preforming the ritual every night with the keris with the idea of bringing the blade alive. After about a month of doing this every night before going to bed I placed the blade next to my bed on a bedside cabinet resting on a hardback book. I went to sleep and was woken in the middle of the night by the keris rattling next to my bed. It freaked me out at first but then I thought its what you wanted isn't it. Anyway I lived for a whole two years with this keris frequently rattling and got very used to it, actually for a while I thought of it like a pet. I would get very annoyed on occasion when it would wake me up late at night or early in the morning. I actually put it out in the hallway once I had enough of its behaviour.
After about two years of not "feeding it" it slowly stopped rattling but during that time it was entertaining at first and I made several experiments with it.

you need to turn off the vibrate mode on the keris :P
just kidding, Pusaka

I am an Indonesian and used to hear such stories, but never witnessed one myself

the weirdest thing happened to me was to enter my grandmother's room and suddenly I felt the air is getting warmer and thicker to the point it was rather difficult to breathe

I asked my grandmother why and she simply said, it's the keris ... and pointing out to the keris behind her bedroom door, behind me

Donny

[David]

Originally Posted by Pusaka

I lived with a keris that would rattle very often and it became very normal, even annoying at times. I had heard some teachings about the esoteric aspect of the keris and I managed to understand the ritual even though I was only told parts of it. So I tried it I had a friend make me a keris and to make it extra special I gave him a small meteorite that I wanted incorporated into the blade.

When I received the blade I began preforming the ritual every night with the keris with the idea of bringing the blade alive. After about a month of doing this every night before going to bed I placed the blade next to my bed on a bedside cabinet resting on a hardback book. I went to sleep and was woken in the middle of the night by the keris rattling next to my bed. It freaked me out at first but then I thought its what you wanted isn't it. Anyway I lived for a whole two years with this keris frequently rattling and got very used to it, actually for a while I thought of it like a pet. I would get very annoyed on occasion when it would wake me up late at night or early in the morning. I actually put it out in the hallway once I had enough of its behaviour.
After about two years of not "feeding it" it slowly stopped rattling but during that time it was entertaining at first and I made several experiments with it.

Have you ever read the novel Frankenstein? Your description here reminds me a lot of the relationship between the doctor and his creature. It was not a good relationship.

[Pusaka]

Originally Posted by satsujinken

you need to turn off the vibrate mode on the keris :P
just kidding, Pusaka

I am an Indonesian and used to hear such stories, but never witnessed one myself

the weirdest thing happened to me was to enter my grandmother's room and suddenly I felt the air is getting warmer and thicker to the point it was rather difficult to breathe

I asked my grandmother why and she simply said, it's the keris ... and pointing out to the keris behind her bedroom door, behind me

Donny

Methods that have been lost over time but everything that was will be again and again such things will become more common like the swing of a pendulum. As I said in my experience if you do not "feed" the keris it dies within two years thus it is no surprise to me that such things are not observed.

[Pusaka]

Originally Posted by David

Have you ever read the novel Frankenstein? Your description here reminds me a lot of the relationship between the doctor and his creature. It was not a good relationship.

After a while I began to understand that the reason it rattles has nothing to do with being alive or warning of danger. Basically the process makes the blade responsive to energy fields and then when there is a change to local energy fields such as changes in Earth energy, solar flairs, weather, biological energy's the keris rides these invisible waves making it rattle. So in the end I began to see it more like a magnet responding to changes in local magnetic fields and less like a living thing.

At first it was quite exciting like a new discovery but after a while it became quite normal. On several occasions it would be very early in the morning like 4am and the thing would start rattling in my bedroom so I started to get annoyed by it.

[A. G. Maisey]

This post has been removed from this thread.

I put it into the wrong thread.

It is my firm belief that I was santeted, by whom or by what Force I have no idea, but it demonstrates what can happen when one gets too close to the Truth in these arcane matters.

[David]

[Pusaka]

A. G. Maisey

My keris never flew however, just rattled, perhaps I lacked the magical potency to make a flying keris

[Bill M]

Fascinating posts.

For myself, I - maybe -, have a flying keris. I acquired the keris and it was in need of cleaning. I separated the blade from the handle and sheath. Cleaned the blade and put it on a top shelf in my workroom.

Carefully, I cleaned the handle, the sheath, the metal parts, let them dry as the finish materials set up. I had been working several days on this.

But when I looked for the blade and it was gone, missing. I searched the workroom from top to bottom. No result. Maybe, though I was certain that I had not moved it from the top shelf, I searched the entire house, our cars, everywhere, it was GONE. Could the blade being naked, it decided to fly away?

So I put it out of my mind. Put the handle and sheath on that top shelf - the blade was still gone. Two weeks later I happened to look on a different shelf and the blade was there! I had carefully looked at that same shelf myriad times. Mystifying! Did it fly away and return? Who knows?

I have studied the paranormal for 40 years. I have seen people seriously focussed on the "Phenomena". Working hard to see a ghost. To have poltergeists moving objects. Seeing "things".

To me, the study of phenomena is a distraction to my studies. I seriously the dead ghost of "Aunt Matilda." Could teach me any more than Aunt Matilda could have told me very much when she was alive.

I put the keris back together and put it with the others.

Do I believe in the connection with the "visible and invisible?" Sure. But I am more interested in "bridges" to the invisible. Can a keris be a 'bridge', and too many people think so. I think it can be a "point of focus" that can help me feel my way to higher levels, the inner planes. But IF is is true to me. I do not care if other people it does. Only if it helps me!

Take a keris and stick it in my shadow? I will walk away - with my shadow - and the keris can stay behind in the ground. If I see a group of people seeing a tiger flying around the room? And I do not? It is THEIR world, not mine. And they can have their world and I have mine.

To me "phenomena" is most likely to hold you to the material world. Think about this? Do you want to reach higher?

In a keris, I see Beauty. And Beauty comes from the inner planes. Simple enough. Get lost in the patterns, the shapes, see Beauty. You are going well, getting higher, reaching to God.

Anything can be a point of focus. A keris, a rock, a piece of wood, a smell, a delightful taste. A sunset. Nature. Beautiful woman.

See the "man" beyond the blade.

[Pusaka]

The thing about these type of keris is that if they are not maintained their energy fades over time. Some of those formally live old keris have faded due to neglect.

I dont think the modern keris makers know how to empower these blades any more. So you could say at least one aspect of keris making has died, at least thats what I think.

[Rick]

Most of my kerises are kemardikan; most, I believe, were made for purchase by unknown persons, many of them not of keris cultures.

So every time a pande makes a keris he somehow imbues with a spirit or 'soul' no matter if it's going to a Christian in New York city or a Muslim or Hindu villager in Jawa?
How does that work?

[Pusaka]

I dont think most (if any) modern keris makers imbue the keris they are making with anything. They just make it as fast as possible so that they can start the next one

[A. G. Maisey]

That is not quite so Pusaka.

It may appear to be so to somebody on the outside looking in, and yes, in many cases it is so, but there is at least one Balinese Pande who can still create a keris using the correct mantras and ceremonies.

During the 1980's there were two empus in Jawa who would accept commissions for a traditionally made keris.

If a keris is being made as an art work, or as an item of commerce, it would be totally inappropriate and commercially unviable to create it using the traditional offerings, mantras and prohibitions, so it cannot be expected that a keris that has been made as an item of commerce will have too much of the esoteric about it.

However, much of this business of a keris having some particular essence or power is rooted in the beliefs of its custodian, and there are those who believe that even an "empty" keris can have particular powers called into it.

There is something else that must be mentioned too, and that is that even for a keris that is believed to have some particular esoteric content, that content will only be accessible by a particular person, and it is usually not of the nature imagined by non-initiates. An example of this would be the true pusaka keris that acts as a binding agent that brings together all custodians of previous generations with all members of a kin group in the present generation.

There has probably been more uninformed rubbish written about the "magic" powers of The Keris than perhaps all other cultural artifacts.

We must never forget that The Keris has the nature of a meru and as such it is an empty place waiting the entry of a spiritual entity, thus care must be exercised to ensure that whatever entity might care to take up permanent or passing residence in the keris is not of a negative nature.

[Pusaka]

Maisey thanks for that, I think this guy in Bali is a rarity perhaps because he is a Hindu these mantras have survived there. These mantras as I understand it are all vedic and I question their survival in Islamic Indonesia. They are most likely to be replaced with Islamic prayer and if so the whole efficiency is lost.
Same with the making of cimande oil, it requires vedic mantras to be chanted over it as far as I understand, how will a strict Muslim chant vedic mantra, again the temptation is to replace it with verse from the Koran.

I was reading another thread on here where you say that you like to drench your keris in WD40, and then paint them with Sandalwood oil mix. I was always told you must not put unnatural oils on a live keris as it will kill it, the smoke and the oil is its food. I dont think it would enjoy WD40 what do you think?

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

That is not quite so Pusaka.

It may appear to be so to somebody on the outside looking in, and yes, in many cases it is so, but there is at least one Balinese Pande who can still create a keris using the correct mantras and ceremonies.

During the 1980's there were two empus in Jawa who would accept commissions for a traditionally made keris.

If a keris is being made as an art work, or as an item of commerce, it would be totally inappropriate and commercially unviable to create it using the traditional offerings, mantras and prohibitions, so it cannot be expected that a keris that has been made as an item of commerce will have too much of the esoteric about it.

However, much of this business of a keris having some particular essence or power is rooted in the beliefs of its custodian, and there are those who believe that even an "empty" keris can have particular powers called into it.

There is something else that must be mentioned too, and that is that even for a keris that is believed to have some particular esoteric content, that content will only be accessible by a particular person, and it is usually not of the nature imagined by non-initiates. An example of this would be the true pusaka keris that acts as a binding agent that brings together all custodians of previous generations with all members of a kin group in the present generation.

There has probably been more uninformed rubbish written about the "magic" powers of The Keris than perhaps all other cultural artifacts.

We must never forget that The Keris has the nature of a meru and as such it is an empty place waiting the entry of a spiritual entity, thus care must be exercised to ensure that whatever entity might care to take up permanent or passing residence in the keris is not of a negative nature.

WOW! Beautifully said! I am in alignment.