Gold inlaid tulwar

[DaveS]

Up for viewing is a gold inlaid tulwar. I posted this a couple of years ago but didn't get any comments so i thought i would try again. The blade is layer-welded, 29 inches long and 33 inches overall. Most of the silver on the handle is intact. The inlays look to me to either the sun with the planets around it or the moon with stars. Thoughts???????. Probably as with a lot of inlays some kind of talismanic symbols. there is a small stamp below one of the langents, makers mark????. Scabbard looks like a military type, not a native one. I'm guessing that this sword is probably from the middle 1800s. What do the experts here say.............Dave.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The sun marks are very interesting...I cannot recall seeing anything quite like those... The single line near the hilt could be Styrian or Genoa marks of the Hogsback variety / eyelash.

[DaveS]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

The sun marks are very interesting...I cannot recall seeing anything quite like those... The single line near the hilt could be Styrian or Genoa marks of the Hogsback variety / eyelash.

Yes, i've not seen inlays that either. Not sure if they might not represent the moon with stars. Also the handle has what looks to be a gold eye with eyelashes..........Dave.

[Kmaddock]

Hi
I assume it is brass and not gold
can you show close up of the pin holding the blade in where it is peened or brazed over.
The blade looks nice but the quality of the infill does not look to be very high.
Just opinions I know very little about such work
regards
Ken

[mariusgmioc]

The markings near the hilt appear to be made in order to mask some de-lamination.

[ariel]

I think it is Afghani.

Three dot symbol was Tamerlan's tamga.

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by DaveS

Scabbard looks like a military type, not a native one.

Scabbard looks like a modern ....

[CharlesS]

With a pattern weld of this type, I am not sure it was really ever meant to be etched, but more likely polished out, or at the very least with a much less bold etch.

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

With a pattern weld of this type, I am not sure it was really ever meant to be etched, but more likely polished out, or at the very least with a much less bold etch.

I agree!

The tendency to etch pattern welded blades is relatively new. As far as I know 19th century Indian pattern welded swords weren't originally etched. But I would like to know others' oppinions.

[Tim Simmons]

Perhaps gold leaf might be a better discription.

[Battara]

Actually Tim, by the pictures I see, the gold looks to be more than gold leaf. I think it may have originally been gold or brass inlay. However, over time, a soft metal like this would wear away. I have seen this happen in Nepalese and Tibetan horas and gold inlays.

[DaveS]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Perhaps gold leaf might be a better discription.

Tim: I have had this sword for many years. It would seem to me that if it was brass inlays that they would have tarnished at least a little. But they are as bright as the day i first got it. As far as the etch, yes it was not as dark as when i got it. I re-etched it because i like patterns, weather it is a Moro sword or an Islamic piece, to have a nice darker contrast between layers. Not so much traditional maybe, just my personal preference............Dave.

[Battara]

I agree Dave that the yellow metal is in fact gold due to the hue I see in the pictures and that, yes, there is little or no patina/oxidation. They are true inlay, not just an overlay or leaf.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

To decide if the inlay is gold you will need the nitric acid test. None of the other tests is reliable and in this case not practical . For safety you can ask a Jeweller if they can do the test.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

The tendency to etch pattern welded blades is relatively new. As far as I know 19th century Indian pattern welded swords weren't originally etched. But I would like to know others' oppinions.

At first, nice tulwar Dave!

Marius, I doubt but I can be wrong. Why should a good blacksmith don't want to show his work? I think when a blade is laminated or worked from wootz it was also the intention to show it, but maybe the etch wasn't very strong by some blades.

Regards,
Detlef

[Roland_M]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

As far as I know 19th century Indian pattern welded swords weren't originally etched. But I would like to know others' oppinions.

Hi Marius,

some were some were not.

Lord Egerton of Tatton decscribes a technique in his Book "Indian and Oriental Arms and Armour (~1880)" how they did that.
From early 19th ct. we have detailed descriptions from George Pearson (scientist) and Antonio Crivelli (experimental smith).

A well made etching is also a good protection against corrosion.


This blade is skillfully forged and nicely etched.

Roland

[ALEX]

Originally Posted by mahratt

Scabbard looks like a modern ....

Agree with Mahratt regarding modern scabbard.

As for pattern, there are many similar mechanical damascus antique blades being etched to reveal the pattern. This one neither elaborate nor complex, but well done for its type and I'd consider it etch-worthy as well.

Also agree with Roland. Different collectors had different etching/polishing preference. The Wallace Collection, for instance, favored high gloss polish on all/most Islamic blades, even wootz, to adhere to established European-like taste of that time.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

It is not unusual to have a scabbard replaced...they only last a fraction of the swords life though occasionally one survives....what interests me is the group of 4 suns . I don't think this is gold but it may be... It is more likely to be high content copper mixed in the brass...but unless a test is done ...Jewellery shop nitric acid you will not know. What weapon did I see with the same or similar group of suns? Kora...See below;