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16th July 2016, 04:28 AM
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#1 |
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 33
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Medieval Sword
Sorry for the link.
What do you think re: authenticity? This went up pretty fast, and I was tempted because it was a perfect example of the type. But I had a few doubts. It went for way too low if this was authentic though. Last edited by Croccifixio; 16th July 2016 at 01:00 PM. |
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16th July 2016, 06:19 PM
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#2 |
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 233
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I cant say that's its authentic for sure but in my opinion it looks better than 90% of the medieval swords out there that are sold as authentic.
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17th July 2016, 11:59 AM
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#3 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 400
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18th July 2016, 11:48 PM
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#4 |
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 132
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There are not many surviving swords with decoration on the pommel, not to mention on the cross as well... I find it a bit suspicious that the decoration seems so similar in technique (but much poorer quality) to one that Cerjak shared recently.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21156 |
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19th July 2016, 03:53 AM
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#5 |
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 33
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I also read a recent discussion about fakes from eastern europe from a few reknowned sword makers (Peter Johnsson in particular gave his input)... This one, however, doesn't have the usual indications. Except for the pommel engraving, which I've seen on what some would say a clear fake. If this is not authentic, then it seems very well made. The proportions are correct for the period albeit a bit more pointed than usual. The flare at the blade shoulder is a nuance seen in really good historical finds. Overall it just looks so good that I'm drawn to the conclusion that someone got very very lucky getting this for below 5 grand. With a bit of cleaning this can be museum quality I think.
If, of course, it is authentic. |
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19th July 2016, 12:11 PM
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#6 |
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Posts: 182
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There's an inscription on the blade. Can you provide better pictures of it?
Decorations on pommel and crossguard are a bit odd. Looks pretty good otherwise... |
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20th July 2016, 03:28 AM
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#7 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 132
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Quote:
I am also very curious to see more of the inscription; what I think I can see in these photos also leave me with some misgivings. The letters appear to be the larger, earlier style that would have been iron-inlaid, as opposed to later, finer inlays in silver/latten/etc. This early method of inlay seems a little odd combined with the "pointy" blade shape that you mention. It looks like the tip of the blade may even have a diamond cross-section, generally a later feature, though commonly appearing in lower quality modern reproductions of early swords. As far as I can tell, there does not seem to be any inlay left in the letters... Peter Johnsson has mentioned this as a potential red flag for possibly faked inscriptions. The inscription seems to start with a circular medallion-like ornament, with a raised shape/character in the middle. Overall, it seems quite similar to the ornaments on the pommel. I have notes, photos, and diagrams of hundreds of inscriptions and have never seen an ornament inlaid in this way. So... I just have misgivings.  If you could, please send me the link to the auction as a PM... I think that is within the rules! 
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20th July 2016, 06:06 AM
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#8 |
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 33
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For the benefit of discussion, I'll post the rest of the pictures from the completed auction. Perhaps I missed something. There are quite a number of pictures from different angles.
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20th July 2016, 06:15 AM
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#9 |
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 33
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More pictures of the sword for analysis.
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21st July 2016, 04:30 AM
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#10 |
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 132
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Posting at Lee's request, some links to interesting comments from Peter Johnsson re. fake swords.
Viking sword sold for £32,000, suggested to be fake. http://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=170055#170055 Another, sold for £16,000. Inlaid and pattern-welded, most likely fake. http://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=289670#289670 Comment re. inlay that has "fallen out". http://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=289741#289741 Second-hand info, but passed on by a reliable forum member: XIV.6 in Records is most likely fake. http://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=304092#304092 Probable fake with nicks to the blade added to suggest battle damage. https://www.facebook.com/myArmoury/p...type=3&theater |
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21st July 2016, 08:32 AM
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#11 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 525
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Original european swords of this period are allways or at least in most cases made from laminated steel, made from refined carbonized wrought iron. I'm unsure but if the area I highlighted in the picture show traces of lamination, the sword is probably authentic. Roland |
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21st July 2016, 10:49 AM
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#12 |
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Austria
Posts: 1,903
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I definitely have no experise in spotting fakes but I noticed something strange.
It took a lot of skill and experise for a Middle Age swordsmith to make such a sword. It was by no means a small feat to forge a sword blade. So how comes that a skilled swordsmith that can forge a sword blade and give it a perfect shape, cannot forge a reasonably round pommel?! Also maybe just an impression... but isn't the tang a bit short in relation to the sizes of the sword, crossguard and pommel?!
Last edited by mariusgmioc; 21st July 2016 at 02:12 PM. |
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22nd July 2016, 03:08 AM
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#13 | ||
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Posts: 132
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Quote:
Quote:
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12th August 2016, 10:28 PM
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#14 |
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 132
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Now here is a third example of a sword with the odd, inset pommel decorations. This one was confiscated after being put up for auction illegally in Poland, and the would-be seller was arrested. The seller had "no explanation" of how the sword came into his possession...
The article says "preliminary assessments by archaeologists show it is original... probably from the 10th-12th centuries". This date range seems a bit off the mark, so that doesn't exactly inspire much confidence in the claim of authenticity... Altogether, a very suspicious set of coincidences... https://www.ebos.pl/wiadomosci/sredn...netowej_aukcji |
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14th August 2016, 06:46 PM
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#15 |
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: FRANCE
Posts: 1,065
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Reventlov,
Very interesting information i have found some more pictures. http://www.policja.pl/pol/aktualnosci/18781,dok.html I'm curious to know the final statements from the polish experts Best Cerjak |
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14th August 2016, 07:44 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 132
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Quote:
I have found a more recent article that sheds more light on this matter... to cut a long story short, the three swords seized in Poland are definitely fake. http://www.newsweek.pl/polska/awantu...,3548,1,1.html It seems that the seller "Piotr P." is Peter Pajewski, the son of one Edward Pajewski who I have heard of before... a blacksmith who has a legitimate(?) side business producing aged reproduction swords. Piotr told the police that he had made the swords himself, but the police did not believe him and proceeded to announce to the media that they had recovered "national treasures". A blog post claims that Edward now boasts of the incident, taking it as praise for the quality of his work! http://paul-barford.blogspot.ca/2010...ord-sword.html I found another photo of probably the same sword on a Polish message board, and a photo of some similar swords in what looks like an album of Edward Pajewski's metalwork. Two of them look very much like your sword, I'm sorry to say.  http://odkrywca.pl/chcial-sprzedac-s...cz,620427.html http://kowale.eu/foto/picture.php?/90/category/5 |
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