Caucasian rifle

Kubur · 14th May 2016, 04:56 PM

I'm a weak man...I couldn't resist...
The screw and upper part of the cock are replacements...
By the way I got Rivkin's book, a really threat! A real book, not a catalogue...
A lot of kinjal and shashka, not too many guns...
Best,
Kubur

ariel · 14th May 2016, 08:26 PM

You are a strong man!
I am a weak one, always looking around my shoulder for... you know who:-((
Wonderful acquisition!
Harbuk?

Glad you got Kirill's book: it is an indispensable classic. I got several examples of mine there, and am understandably proud of being able to contribute to it. Astvatsaturyan had much more firearms in her book, but it is in Russian ( lucky me!).Apparently, she is about to publish another one but I am afraid it will not be in English.

estcrh · 15th May 2016, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

I'm a weak man...I couldn't resist...
The screw and upper part of the cock are replacements...
By the way I got Rivkin's book, a really threat! A real book, not a catalogue...
A lot of kinjal and shashka, not too many guns...
Best,
Kubur

Kuber, a very rare example, thanks form posting.

BANDOOK · 15th May 2016, 11:01 AM

WOW,THATS A NICE GUN KUBUR,LUCKY U
ANOTHER ONE TO YOU VAST COLLECTION
CHEERS

corrado26 · 15th May 2016, 01:52 PM

The style of my pistol fits the style of your gun perfectly
corrado26

corrado26 · 15th May 2016, 01:55 PM

some more pictures

Norman McCormick · 15th May 2016, 02:26 PM

Hi Kubur,
Nice rifle you've got there, do you think the upper part of the cock is a working replacement or not? I have attached a photograph of the lock on my Caucasian rifle, which is similar to the one on Corrado's pistol, for a comparison.
Regards,
Norman.

P.S. Corrado that is a nice pistol you have.

Kubur · 15th May 2016, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

You are a strong man!
I am a weak one, always looking around my shoulder for... you know who:-((
Wonderful acquisition!
Harbuk?

Glad you got Kirill's book: it is an indispensable classic. I got several examples of mine there, and am understandably proud of being able to contribute to it. Astvatsaturyan had much more firearms in her book, but it is in Russian ( lucky me!).Apparently, she is about to publish another one but I am afraid it will not be in English.

Thanks Ariel, what do you mean by Harbuk?
I have her green book, but I understand nothings, thanks there are plenty of pictures...

Kubur · 15th May 2016, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corrado26

some more pictures

Thanks Strech & Rajesh!
Corrado your pistol is amazing! It's also the first time that i see snake skin used... very nice.
Is it a way to hide your ivory pommel???

But snake is maybe also forbidden by Cites...

Kubur · 15th May 2016, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi Kubur,
Nice rifle you've got there, do you think the upper part of the cock is a working replacement or not? I have attached a photograph of the lock on my Caucasian rifle, which is similar to the one on Corrado's pistol, for a comparison.
Regards,
Norman.

I agree Norman, unfortunatly it's a replacement.
I think that I'll do a copy of yours...

corrado26 · 15th May 2016, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Corrado your pistol is amazing! It's also the first time that i see snake skin used... very nice.
Is it a way to hide your ivory pommel???

But snake is maybe also forbidden by Cites...

No, the pommel is made of the same wood as the other parts of the stock. And as I do not intend to sale this pistol outside the EU cites doesn't matter at all.

In case you should want to see more of this type of pistols: My archive has lots of fotos to show.
corrado26

rickystl · 15th May 2016, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

I agree Norman, unfortunatly it's a replacement.
I think that I'll do a copy of yours...

Hi Kubur.
Well. You just had to go and do it, didn't you. LOL!!

Unfortunately, as we all know, collecting can be very addictive.

Nice find ! These Caucasian rifles/long guns are usually difficult to find in any condition. So, congratulations. It appears the stock was cut back sometime during the period. Possibly due to stock forearm damage (?). Is the barrel rifled or smoothbore?
These rifles and pistols have a unique style and form of decoration. And one thing I've noticed, generally, they usually fetch premium prices compared to other Ethno firearms. I guess it's partially due to the scarcity as compared to Moroccan, Albanian, Algerian, Ottoman, etc. And I've heard that in the last decade or so new Russian collectors are competing for the same specimens. So I guess the combination of the two keep the prices up.
Again, congrats. Nice piece.
Rick.

rickystl · 15th May 2016, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corrado26

some more pictures

Hi Corrado.
OMG!! That pistol is a beauty!!! I love the snakeskin effect. Super nice example. I'm sitting here typing and trying to wipe the druel off my mouth at the same time. LOL

Fantastic example.
Rick

rickystl · 15th May 2016, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi Kubur,
Nice rifle you've got there, do you think the upper part of the cock is a working replacement or not? I have attached a photograph of the lock on my Caucasian rifle, which is similar to the one on Corrado's pistol, for a comparison.
Regards,
Norman.

P.S. Corrado that is a nice pistol you have.

Hi Norman ! How have you been ?
Yes, this Persian style lock is the most common you see on these Caucasian guns. Mine is similar. Often, the long guns also copy the Persian style barrels.
Rick.

rickystl · 15th May 2016, 05:01 PM

Here, a rather plain pistol with a stock made of one piece of horn, with a Circasian style lock varient.
Rick.

Norman McCormick · 15th May 2016, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickystl

Hi Norman ! How have you been ?
Yes, this Persian style lock is the most common you see on these Caucasian guns. Mine is similar. Often, the long guns also copy the Persian style barrels.
Rick.

Hi Rick,
It's very kind of you to ask

Been really busy getting a wreck of a house up and running but the light is now at the end of the tunnel. I see from past posts you've been really busy buying up the worlds stock of Ethno firearms and very cool they are too

I have attached a couple of photographs of the barrel of my gun maybe Turkish or Persian?
My Regards,
Norman.

rickystl · 21st May 2016, 05:38 PM

Hi Norman.
The shoulder guns I've seen tend to have cues of both Persian and Ottoman barrels. It's really difficult to know for sure. But the locks do usually copy the Persian style.
What looks interesting on your barrel is the 6 groove "U" shaped rifling. Unless the grooves are just champhered at the muzzle only to assist in loading, that style of rifling is not very common. The barrel on mine has the typical square cut rifling, but 8 grooves. With the taper of the barrel having a bit more Ottoman look to it.
Rick.

Kubur · 21st May 2016, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickystl

Here, a rather plain pistol with a stock made of one piece of horn, with a Circasian style lock varient.
Rick.

Hi Rick,

Is it common to have a horn stock? I never saw that before... Do you have more photos??

Best,
Kubur

ariel · 21st May 2016, 07:07 PM

Kubur,
Harbuk is a Daghestani village ( aul) that was a center for firearm production for the entire North Caucasus and even for larger centers like Tiflis.

rickystl · 21st May 2016, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi Rick,

Is it common to have a horn stock? I never saw that before... Do you have more photos??

Best,
Kubur

Hi Kubur.
No, it is not common. This is the only one I've ever seen. While in Baltimore about three years ago a Dealer in primarily Ethno weapons mentioned he had seen only one other. Actually, I restored this to shooting condition and posted it here on the Forum. But that was in June, 2011. WOW! Five years has gone by already. Anyway, if you go to the Search section of the Forum, and look under my handle rickystl and Caucasian Pistol, there are a bunch of pics. Along with a silver Caucasion belt buckle.

Rick.

14th May 2016, 04:56 PM	#1
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Caucasian rifle I'm a weak man...I couldn't resist... The screw and upper part of the cock are replacements... By the way I got Rivkin's book, a really threat! A real book, not a catalogue... A lot of kinjal and shashka, not too many guns... Best, Kubur Attached Images

15th May 2016, 01:52 PM	#5
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,226	The style of my pistol fits the style of your gun perfectly corrado26 Attached Images Last edited by corrado26; 15th May 2016 at 02:03 PM.

15th May 2016, 01:55 PM	#6
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,226	some more pictures Attached Images Last edited by corrado26; 15th May 2016 at 02:05 PM.

15th May 2016, 02:26 PM	#7
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,613	Hi Kubur, Nice rifle you've got there, do you think the upper part of the cock is a working replacement or not? I have attached a photograph of the lock on my Caucasian rifle, which is similar to the one on Corrado's pistol, for a comparison. Regards, Norman. P.S. Corrado that is a nice pistol you have. Attached Images

15th May 2016, 05:01 PM	#15
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,630	Here, a rather plain pistol with a stock made of one piece of horn, with a Circasian style lock varient. Rick. Attached Images

14th May 2016, 08:26 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	You are a strong man! I am a weak one, always looking around my shoulder for... you know who:-(( Wonderful acquisition! Harbuk? Glad you got Kirill's book: it is an indispensable classic. I got several examples of mine there, and am understandably proud of being able to contribute to it. Astvatsaturyan had much more firearms in her book, but it is in Russian ( lucky me!).Apparently, she is about to publish another one but I am afraid it will not be in English.

15th May 2016, 11:01 AM	#4
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	WOW,THATS A NICE GUN KUBUR,LUCKY U ANOTHER ONE TO YOU VAST COLLECTION CHEERS

21st May 2016, 05:38 PM	#17
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,630	Hi Norman. The shoulder guns I've seen tend to have cues of both Persian and Ottoman barrels. It's really difficult to know for sure. But the locks do usually copy the Persian style. What looks interesting on your barrel is the 6 groove "U" shaped rifling. Unless the grooves are just champhered at the muzzle only to assist in loading, that style of rifling is not very common. The barrel on mine has the typical square cut rifling, but 8 grooves. With the taper of the barrel having a bit more Ottoman look to it. Rick. Attached Images

21st May 2016, 07:07 PM	#19
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Kubur, Harbuk is a Daghestani village ( aul) that was a center for firearm production for the entire North Caucasus and even for larger centers like Tiflis.