Ankus

[Miguel]

Hello everyone,

I thought those of you who are interested in Ankus may enjoy these.
The one with the ivory grips is 17th to 18th C and the two with the worn silver decoration and hidden spike daggers are 19th C.
Regards
Miguel

[estcrh]

I like the one with the ivory handle, looks like something that might actually have been used and not just for show. I have one, it looks to be fairly old and not to flashy.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Miguel,
Could you get a very good close up of the screw thread?
Jens

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by estcrh

I like the one with the ivory handle, looks like something that might actually have been used and not just for show. I have one, it looks to be fairly old and not to flashy.

Hi estcrh,
Thanks for your comments and enhanced pics. I agree with you for the same reasons, the other two are ornamental and would not stand up to prolonged use. The one you have is a good robust one and made to use.
Regards
Miguel

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Miguel,
Could you get a very good close up of the screw thread?
Jens

Hi Jens, it will be my pleasure. I will try to post it tomorrow but I have to tell you, in case you hadn't noticed already, that my photos are not that good and may require the good services of estcrh to work his magic on them, we will see.
Kind regards
Miguel

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Miguel

Hi estcrh,
Thanks for your comments and enhanced pics. I agree with you for the same reasons, the other two are ornamental and would not stand up to prolonged use. The one you have is a good robust one and made to use.
Regards
Miguel

Miguel, the other two are very similar, one does look to be much more worn but both seem to be not nearly as old as the ivory handled one. I was hoping to see some more examples from forum members.

[Miguel]

Estrch. one is mor worn and I was also hoping for more replies with some photos of their Ankus.
Miguel

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by Miguel

Hi Jens, it will be my pleasure. I will try to post it tomorrow but I have to tell you, in case you hadn't noticed already, that my photos are not that good and may require the good services of estcrh to work his magic on them, we will see.
Kind regards
Miguel

Hi Jens,

Here is the photo as promised, I hope it is good enough for your needs.
Kind Regards
Miguel

ps Sorry but system will not open photo to upload. Will try again later.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Miguel,
Have a look here. BI mentions the age of the ancus http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=Ancus

It is quite interesting, as he also mentions the katar, which I took back to about the 10th century. So both are very old - and maybe even older than that.

[Ian]

Jens and Miguel:

Is there any evidence that the ankus, or elephant goad, was actually used as a weapon?

Ian.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Miguel,
Have a look here. BI mentions the age of the ancus http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=Ancus

"the ancus, in pure form is apparant for at least 1200 years, and most probably more (i rarely look further :-) in both the north and south of india."

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Ian

Jens and Miguel:

Is there any evidence that the ankus, or elephant goad, was actually used as a weapon?

Ian.

Ian, this one was obviously intended as a weapon.

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Miguel,
Have a look here. BI mentions the age of the ancus http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=Ancus

It is quite interesting, as he also mentions the katar, which I took back to about the 10th century. So both are very old - and maybe even older than that.

Hi Jens,
Fascinating thread, certainly makes you think. The more you learn the more you have to alter your thinking. From that thread, although I have only read it once and will have to read it a few more times for it to sink in, I gathered that that the Kora did not appear in Nepal until around the 16thC which is roughly about the date of the oldest known Kukri but it looks as if it was known in parts of India in the 8thC, interesting. I have not really absorbed it yet. Thank you very much for providing this link.

Now I will try agin to upload the Ankus screw thread. I think my PC was downloading an update which prevented me from uploading, anyway here goes if at first you don't succeed and all that.
Kind regards
Miguel

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by estcrh

Ian, this one was obviously intended as a weapon.

Nice combination Ankus gun. Obviously the purpose of the gun was a weapon but it does not signify that the normal Ankus was used as a weapon although it certainly could be.
Regards
Miguel

[Jens Nordlunde]

Yes ancuse' could have fire arms attached, although it was not the norm. However, should someone directing an elephant feel attached, he would use the ancus to defend himself and his master, as he would likely not be armed with anything other than a dagger. The ancus would have been a rather good weapon, as it had the spikes. Getting a blow if one of these spikes would not have been very pleasent.
It is, however, likely that the elephant would have run away before such a thing happend, due to the battle noice and the firering of guns and cannons.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Miguel

Nice combination Ankus gun. Obviously the purpose of the gun was a weapon but it does not signify that the normal Ankus was used as a weapon although it certainly could be.
Regards
Miguel

Miguel, your right, I just had to throw it in, although ankus were associated with weapons I think they were usually more of a tool.

Here are a group of interesting weapons from Junagarh Fort, on either side are what has to be the largest ankus I have seen.

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by estcrh

Miguel, your right, I just had to throw it in, although ankus were associated with weapons I think they were usually more of a tool.

Here are a group of interesting weapons from Junagarh Fort, on either side are what has to be the largest ankus I have seen.

Hi estcrh,

The Mahouts must have arms like Tarzan and I feel sorry for their elephants.

The weapons in that case are interesting, I have not seen some of them before. The Smiths were certainly good at their jobs.
Regards
Miguel

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Miguel

Hi estcrh,

The Mahouts must have arms like Tarzan and I feel sorry for their elephants.

The weapons in that case are interesting, I have not seen some of them before. The Smiths were certainly good at their jobs.
Regards
Miguel

Miguel I have some images of very nice ankus but nothing as massive as those ones, I just found some high resolution images from the fort, I will post them.

[estcrh]

Study for Rao Ram Singh I Hunting Rhinoceros on an Elephant, Attributed to The Kota Master (active early 18th century) Date: ca. 1690–1700, Western India, Rajasthan, Kota. Medium: Ink with touches of color over charcoal underdrawing on paper. An elephant holding a rhinoceros with its trunk. Two huntsmen, one of whom is the ruler of Kota, Ram Singh I (r. 1667–88), hold tenaciously onto the elephant’s harnesses as they thrust a lance and shoot arrows into the distressed rhino. An ankus (elephant goad) is secured to the elephants harness.

[Timo Nieminen]

Originally Posted by Ian

Is there any evidence that the ankus, or elephant goad, was actually used as a weapon?

Stone's Glossary and Egerton both include it; therefore, obviously a weapon! It even features as a weapon in the 1st editions AD&D Monster Manual.

More realistically, the ones with hidden spikes in the handle are clearly weapons. That doesn't mean that the ankus itself isn't a weapon; one sees such spikes in axes, for example.

It's carried as a weapon by Parvati in her aspect as Durga, goddess of the victory of good over evil. The whole set of weapons is the trisula, sword, chakram, bow and arrow, mace, shield, axe, noose, ankus. There's variation - sometimes I see a snake instead of the noose, a conch shell (i.e., a battle trumpet). Apparently, the weapons can include a javelin, but I don't recall seeing one in art. The picture below also includes what looks like a bell.

Which doesn't mean it was used as a weapon by humans (but surely it was, as an item of convenience), or designed for use as a weapon, except for gun/hidden spike versions. But it means it has some official status as a weapon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parvati
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durga
Pic from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:D...uramardini.JPG

[estcrh]

Here are a few of the more elaborate ankus.

[ariel]

One of the problems was how to stop the elephant that went berserk on the battlefield. Mahouts carried a massive spike with them that they were supposed to hammer into the joint between the skull and the spine of the animal thus paralyzing them instantly.
The gun ( depending on the caliber) might have fulfilled the same role.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by ariel

One of the problems was how to stop the elephant that went berserk on the battlefield. Mahouts carried a massive spike with them that they were supposed to hammer into the joint between the skull and the spine of the animal thus paralyzing them instantly.
The gun ( depending on the caliber) might have fulfilled the same role.

Maybe that is what the hidden spike in some ankus is for and not a weapon at all, a last resort anti-elephant kill switch.

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by estcrh

Here are a few of the more elaborate ankus.

Estcrh, mouth-wateringly beautiful. They must have been carried as status symbols, the craftsmanship as with all Indian weapons of quality awesome.
Thanks for sharing these pics.
Miguel

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by ariel

One of the problems was how to stop the elephant that went berserk on the battlefield. Mahouts carried a massive spike with them that they were supposed to hammer into the joint between the skull and the spine of the animal thus paralyzing them instantly.
The gun ( depending on the caliber) might have fulfilled the same role.

Hi Ariel, interesting but what a difficult job to carry out when on the back of a berserk elephant.
Miguel

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by estcrh

Maybe that is what the hidden spike in some ankus is for and not a weapon at all, a last resort anti-elephant kill switch.

Estcrh, I don't think the hidden spikes would be anywhere near strong enough for that task.
Miguel

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Miguel

Estcrh, I don't think the hidden spikes would be anywhere near strong enough for that task.
Miguel

How would you like to be the one who has to "spike" the raging war elephant. I do not know anything about elephant anatomy, maybe it just took the ice pick type approach in the right spot and not a massive spike, the elephant Achilles heel.