Saudi Saifs

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

With regards to the quillon ring and the one usually find on the pommel, sometimes it can be mismatched, with quillons having a ring and the pommel without. This is due to quillons made from casting silver that is then polished into shape. Also, the reuse of old parts is possible, although the only living maker I contacted did not mention any of that and his creations are all consistent.

Hi A.alnakkas, Thank you for your informative reply. You can see on the pommel end the remains of a stub which I think was where the ring was but I do get your point. With regard to the photos of the chape I apologise for their quality which is mainly due to me and my camera.
Regards Miguel

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by Miguel

Hi A.alnakkas, Thank you for your informative reply. You can see on the pommel end the remains of a stub which I think was where the ring was but I do get your point. With regard to the photos of the chape I apologise for their quality which is mainly due to me and my camera.
Regards Miguel

Hi, me again. Since posting I've noticed what may be an inscription on one edge of the scabbard throat piece and attached a photo for your infoRegards Miguel

[A.alnakkas]

Looks like the name of the owner. Nayef ibn AbdulAziz.. a common name in the region so hard to know who.

As for the stub on the pommel, that actually not the place for the ring, that usually holds a stone.

[A.alnakkas]

Its made by the same guy who made this one :-)

[Lee]

So many very nice old saifs. I am really enjoying this thread.

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Lee

So many very nice old saifs. I am really enjoying this thread.

The maker of those supposedly died either in the 60's or the 70's I am not sure. And not sure if he died of old age.

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

The maker of those supposedly died either in the 60's or the 70's I am not sure. And not sure if he died of old age.

Hi A. ainakkas,
Thank you for taking the time and for your info on my Saif. Is the maker the person you thought it may have been i.e. Sulaiman ibn Bani or is it someone else? I would love to Know.
Regards Miguel

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Miguel

Hi A. ainakkas,
Thank you for taking the time and for your info on my Saif. Is the maker the person you thought it may have been i.e. Sulaiman ibn Bani or is it someone else? I would love to Know.
Regards Miguel

I think so, the craftsmanship is near identical to Sulaiman's work but without an inscription declaring it as his work, one cant be certain.

These are all hand crafted, unlike some later work shops that use some printing/pressed silver methods when making certain parts. Hopefully my research once published it will pinpoint the work of all identifiable swordmaker.

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

I think so, the craftsmanship is near identical to Sulaiman's work but without an inscription declaring it as his work, one cant be certain.

These are all hand crafted, unlike some later work shops that use some printing/pressed silver methods when making certain parts. Hopefully my research once published it will pinpoint the work of all identifiable swordmaker.

Thanks once again for the information, your knowledge on this subject has made this thread so very interesting and for me personally very satisfying, I hope your research will be published pretty soon.
Best regards
Miguel

[Richard G]

Hello Mr Alnakkas,
Is the name Mohammed bin Bani, in the 1920's, familiar to you? I think I have it on one of these saifs.
Regards
Richard

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Richard G

Hello Mr Alnakkas,
Is the name Mohammed bin Bani, in the 1920's, familiar to you? I think I have it on one of these saifs.
Regards
Richard

Yes, Mohammed bin Bani is a sword maker and related to Sulaiman and AbdulAziz bin Bani. They all descend from one of the earliest maker in the area.

Do you have any item with his name and a date?

[Richard G]

Yes, I have a saif of this type signed on the back of the scabbard (but this is my translation) Amal Mohammed bin Bani and dated, elsewhere on the scabbard AH 1341. Do I surmise from earlier comments that this was probably made in Hail?
Regards
Richard

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Richard G

Yes, I have a saif of this type signed on the back of the scabbard (but this is my translation) Amal Mohammed bin Bani and dated, elsewhere on the scabbard AH 1341. Do I surmise from earlier comments that this was probably made in Hail?
Regards
Richard

Not necessarily. Can I see the saif? Mohammed and Sulaiman may have moved outside Hail after the fall of Al-Rashid. To add more info; one supposedly moved to Makkah and the other in Riyadh, where they continued to make swords.

[Richard G]

OK, thanks for the info. I will give it a bit of a rub over and try and take some photo's. Don't expect too much too soon tho!, altho' the saif is a very nice one.
Richard

[Richard G]

OK, Mr Alnakkas,
Eventually, if I can master the technology,

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Richard G

OK, Mr Alnakkas,
Eventually, if I can master the technology,

Thanks for sharing, thats one of the most beautiful saifs I have ever seen :-)

[A.alnakkas]

here is a sword in my collection with a rather illusive maker. This is the only sword I saw with his name and no one seems to know him. Sword dates to 1936 and was in a rough condition but was restored by a professional.

There are a few oddities about this piece compared to other saifs, that includes thicker silver dress and the use of deer horn. The original was in a very rough shape, basically crumbles when held so the maker got a new horn and made it in exact dimensions. Everything was perfect except for a simple discolouration that I thought is acceptable since its natural.

[A.alnakkas]

This is the last sword I have posted, showing close ups of the craftsmanship. One of the best I know of, the engraving on the silver is very high quality.

The silver seems bright, that because this sword was recently restored as it was in horrid condition, to say the least.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Thanks for sharing, thats one of the most beautiful saifs I have ever seen :-)

That is quite a compliment.

[Richard G]

Hello,
I have another one. This has an unmarked and unfullered watered blade. I am hoping Lotfy or Ibrahim will be again generous enough to give me a translation. On the bottom of the locket, beneath the bands of script and just above the mount for the ring is, I think, the makers name.
Many thanks for any help received.
Regards
Richard

[estcrh]

Lotfy, another one with a short chape.

[A.alnakkas]

Nice earlier saif, Richard. I am very interested in seeing better images of the maker's name. As this is slightly earlier it will be immensely appreciated if the maker's name is shown.

As for the script in the locket, these generally have generic script although sometimes the owner's name too.

Your's say's "For its owner a long life and good health" which is very common on this variation.

This type I date as earlier due to photographic evidence. And have tracked some makers.

[Richard G]

Thank you Lotfy,
Sorry for the delay, I have had problems with the last update on the PC.
Anyway here they are:-
Nos 1 & 2 are on the front of the scabbard.
Nos 3 & 4 which should be reversed, if you see what I mean, are on the reverse (seamed) side of the scabbard.

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Richard G

Thank you Lotfy,
Sorry for the delay, I have had problems wiy the last update on the PC.
Anyway here they are

Hey Richard,

Can you email the photos, I need high definition ones to zoom in.

[Richard G]

Wow! that was quick. I'll try.
Richard
PS. Have sent a PM

[A.alnakkas]

Saif made in the city of Ha'il. Blade is European? there is latin script on it that I cannot read.

[LeonymusBosch]

Dear friends,

Would someone be willing to confirm the determination of this saif saber?



It seems to be a 20th century production. An Arab friend helped me translate the inscription on the blade:

،،، السيف عزة مجد أنت قابضها ،،،


،،، وعزة المجد لا تأتيك بالوهن ،،،


،،، ففي السيوف دفاع العرب والوطن ،،،

The sword is the height of glory, O bearer, and in the height of glory you shall not be wearied; as the sword is the pride [defender] of all the Arabs, and the sword is the defender of the Arabs and the homeland.





What is curious is that it has the number 4 stamped on the crossguard and the sheath which could indicate a more industrial production? The grip seems to be plated with a sort of plastic, which the author says smells like pinewood when burnt?




What do you guys think. Also do you have any indication on the worth of such sabers?

Thanks!

[A.alnakkas]

Hello,

Mounts are very recent, made in Syria. Those were mostly made for decoration and sometimes as state gifts. The koftgari looks new.

But the blade looks genuine and old, which is a common practice to refit old blades. Have an expert test it for wootz.

[LeonymusBosch]

Thank you very much!