Indian ? spear for I.D. and comment

colin henshaw · 1st September 2015, 06:28 PM

Hi

Can anyone assist with identifying this, presumably Indian ? spear I have. I would be interested to know the area of origin and approximate date range. For use on horseback, or perhaps by a foot soldier ? Any other pertinent information or comments are welcome.

Thanks in advance.

Tim Simmons · 1st September 2015, 09:12 PM

I have this piece which I still believe is an African version of the Indo/Persian model you show here. At the Stratford Armoury there is a group of India all metal lances very similar to my example, they are far more easily recognised as Indian in the same way as the example you show but I know little of Indian arms really.

Timo Nieminen · 2nd September 2015, 04:37 AM

Length and balance can give some idea of whether it's a lance or an infantry spear. My first thought is that it's a pretty long blade for a cavalry lance (or a very short haft).

Might not be the original haft.

estcrh · 2nd September 2015, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colin henshaw

Hi

Can anyone assist with identifying this, presumably Indian ? spear I have. I would be interested to know the area of origin and approximate date range. For use on horseback, or perhaps by a foot soldier ? Any other pertinent information or comments are welcome.

Thanks in advance.

Colin, I have seen a couple of spear/lance heads similar to yours but I have not found any definite origin. Yours is the first I have seen that is complete, it looks Indian to me, the cane shaft and the end spike are common elements on Indian spears that I have seen, hopefully someone here knows about this particular type.

Roland_M · 2nd September 2015, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colin henshaw

Hi

For use on horseback, or perhaps by a foot soldier ?
Thanks in advance.

Hello Colin,

I'm very sure, that this lance was made for a foot soldier.

1: The spike at the lower end can damage the horse in the heat of the battle.

2: The reason for the spike at the lower end was normally to ram it in the ground with the hope, that a horseman is dumb enough, to ride into the lance. By the way this happened very seldom.

Roland

colin henshaw · 2nd September 2015, 07:35 PM

Many thanks for the information and comments so far. Does anyone know the area of origin in India, and approximate age etc ?

Tim Simmons · 2nd September 2015, 09:00 PM

I find it very interesting that the blade is a separate piece fixed to the lance head. That must be indicate the origin.

Timo Nieminen · 3rd September 2015, 05:13 AM

This kind of separate blade can be seen on various Indian spears. In this case, it (probably) means the blade is relatively thin. So not a lance head intended to pierce armour with. So if a cavalry lance, it's probably late (perhaps 19th century) rather than early.

The ball-and-spike butt was used on Indian (and Persian?) cavalry lances. Or at least, there is contemporary art showing cavalrymen with such lance butts. The spike on the butt isn't sharp, so not that dangerous to one's horse.

colin henshaw · 4th September 2015, 08:22 PM

Can anyone recommend reference books on Indian shields & polearms, maybe also books on Indian shields ?

Timo Nieminen · 5th September 2015, 09:58 AM

Vol 3 of G. N. Pant's "Indian Arms and Armour" covers armour and shields. There is also Pant's stand-alone book on shields: https://books.google.com.au/books?id=OaXQAAAAMAAJ

Other than that, Robinson's "Oriental armour" discusses them in his chapter on India: https://books.google.com.au/books?id...AQBAJ&pg=PT178

As for polearms, there is some in Elgood's "Hindu arms and ritual": http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/...bo3705137.html

Otherwise, Stone and Egerton.

While not Indian, the section on shields in Khorasani's book on Persian arms is relevant: http://www.moshtaghkhorasani.com/bio...mor-from-iran/

colin henshaw · 5th September 2015, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timo Nieminen

Vol 3 of G. N. Pant's "Indian Arms and Armour" covers armour and shields. There is also Pant's stand-alone book on shields: https://books.google.com.au/books?id=OaXQAAAAMAAJ

Other than that, Robinson's "Oriental armour" discusses them in his chapter on India: https://books.google.com.au/books?id...AQBAJ&pg=PT178

As for polearms, there is some in Elgood's "Hindu arms and ritual": http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/...bo3705137.html

Otherwise, Stone and Egerton.

While not Indian, the section on shields in Khorasani's book on Persian arms is relevant: http://www.moshtaghkhorasani.com/bio...mor-from-iran/

Many thanks.

1st September 2015, 06:28 PM	#1
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	Indian ? spear for I.D. and comment Hi Can anyone assist with identifying this, presumably Indian ? spear I have. I would be interested to know the area of origin and approximate date range. For use on horseback, or perhaps by a foot soldier ? Any other pertinent information or comments are welcome. Thanks in advance. Attached Images

1st September 2015, 09:12 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	I have this piece which I still believe is an African version of the Indo/Persian model you show here. At the Stratford Armoury there is a group of India all metal lances very similar to my example, they are far more easily recognised as Indian in the same way as the example you show but I know little of Indian arms really. Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 1st September 2015 at 10:00 PM.

2nd September 2015, 04:37 AM	#3
Timo Nieminen Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 422	Length and balance can give some idea of whether it's a lance or an infantry spear. My first thought is that it's a pretty long blade for a cavalry lance (or a very short haft). Might not be the original haft.

2nd September 2015, 07:35 PM	#6
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	Many thanks for the information and comments so far. Does anyone know the area of origin in India, and approximate age etc ?

2nd September 2015, 09:00 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	I find it very interesting that the blade is a separate piece fixed to the lance head. That must be indicate the origin.

3rd September 2015, 05:13 AM	#8
Timo Nieminen Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 422	This kind of separate blade can be seen on various Indian spears. In this case, it (probably) means the blade is relatively thin. So not a lance head intended to pierce armour with. So if a cavalry lance, it's probably late (perhaps 19th century) rather than early. The ball-and-spike butt was used on Indian (and Persian?) cavalry lances. Or at least, there is contemporary art showing cavalrymen with such lance butts. The spike on the butt isn't sharp, so not that dangerous to one's horse.

4th September 2015, 08:22 PM	#9
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	Can anyone recommend reference books on Indian shields & polearms, maybe also books on Indian shields ?

5th September 2015, 09:58 AM	#10
Timo Nieminen Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 422	Vol 3 of G. N. Pant's "Indian Arms and Armour" covers armour and shields. There is also Pant's stand-alone book on shields: https://books.google.com.au/books?id=OaXQAAAAMAAJ Other than that, Robinson's "Oriental armour" discusses them in his chapter on India: https://books.google.com.au/books?id...AQBAJ&pg=PT178 As for polearms, there is some in Elgood's "Hindu arms and ritual": http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/...bo3705137.html Otherwise, Stone and Egerton. While not Indian, the section on shields in Khorasani's book on Persian arms is relevant: http://www.moshtaghkhorasani.com/bio...mor-from-iran/