Interesting Dagger For Comment

[dana_w]

The over all length of this dagger is 16 15/16". The blade is 11 3/4" long, approximately 15/16" wide near the grip, with the top edge being 3/8" wide over most of its length. The tip is wedge/diamond shaped(?) for 4 1/2". The dagger weighs 8 1/4 oz.

As you can see there is no guard. I believe the grip is made of wood, but it is hard, polished, and looks a lot like some kind of horn.

[S.Workman]

I am no expert, but that hilt looks like tortoise shell. Maybe the dagger is one of those "Corsican" (or French, or Sardinian, or Spanish, or Italian) vendetta daggers. It's pretty sweet, anyway.
Does the tang extend through the grip, or is it shorter and just set into the grip material?

[dana_w]

Originally Posted by S.Workman

Does the tang extend through the grip, or is it shorter and just set into the grip material?

The grip seems like is made of a solid piece. The tang doesn't extend all the way through the grip. The end is just more of the grip material that is a little worn.

[S.Workman]

I might be wrong, but is there a letter or makers mark on the blade? There looks to be something like a "c" or an "o"...or it might be nothing. I'm almost positive that the hilt is tortoise shell. The Carribean had a big tortoiseshell industry, long defunct. They used to get enormous pieces of the stuff.

[dana_w]

Originally Posted by S.Workman

I might be wrong, but is there a letter or makers mark on the blade? There looks to be something like a "c" or an "o"...or it might be nothing. I'm almost positive that the hilt is tortoise shell. The Carribean had a big tortoiseshell industry, long defunct. They used to get enormous pieces of the stuff.

There are no marks on the blade that I can see. You may be right about the tortoise shell, but it all seems to be carved from a single piece.

I can take some more detailed pictures of the grip tomorrow.

[Shakethetrees]

That is one great looking Medeterranean dagger!

I think the precious post got the geography right.

Looks like it's late 18th to mid 19th century, IMHO.

[fernando]

Very nice piece. Assuming the edge is blunt (not sharpened). A weapon made for stabing; most certainly a version of the Spanish almarada (or chupa sangre).

[dana_w]

Originally Posted by fernando

Very nice piece. Assuming the edge is blunt (not sharpened). A weapon made for stabing; most certainly a version of the Spanish almarada (or chupa sangre).

The blade's edge is sharp Fernando, but the reverse tapered swage(?) is not.

I am headed to the office to try and get some better closeup images.

[dana_w]

Here are some closeup photos that show more detail on the grip, and the places where the blade makes transitions in its shape.

All photos in this thread are copyright (c) 2015 by Dana K. Williams. All Rights Are Reserved

[Fernando K]

Hi;

Only for a guess, the turtle carapace was also imitated. There are numerous examples of folding knife with the handle imitation. I think I see a gap, as it has left an insect.

Affectionately. Fernando K

Sorry for the translator

[dana_w]

Originally Posted by Fernando K

Hi;

Only for a guess, the turtle carapace was also imitated. There are numerous examples of folding knife with the handle imitation. I think I see a gap, as it has left an insect.

Affectionately. Fernando K

Sorry for the translator

I am not sure I understand Fernando K. Do you think the grip is made from a turtle carapace (upper shell), or some imitation?

The grip seems to be all of one piece, with two carved out raised areas and lines inscribed along the length of each side. There are a few holes, cracks, and blemishes.

[S.Workman]

Originally Posted by dana_w

I am not sure I understand Fernando K. Do you think the grip is made from a turtle carapace (upper shell), or some imitation?

The grip seems to be all of one piece, with two carved out raised areas and lines inscribed along the length of each side. There are a few holes, cracks, and blemishes.

I think he means that it is not real tortoiseshell, but an imitation. The only imitation for tortoiseshell is plastic, which I don't think this is because plastic doesn't crack in that way, and the blade is too old for plastic. Also, insects don't care for plastic, and it does appear that a horn worm (a beetle larva actually, I think they are) has been at this piece. Its the little hole that looks like it has dust or grains in it. Again, I can't be absolutely sure on my tortoiseshell thesis from a photo, but horn usually doesn't have the planar, angular color lines in it as this piece does. Color in horn is usually more like whorls or streaks. Of course, thats my understanding of buffalo or other bovid horn, perhaps this could be some kind of antelope horn or something.
Edit: on looking at your excellent photo of the grip, I think its cow horn, so I retract my tortoiseshell idea.

[dana_w]

Originally Posted by S.Workman

I think he means that it is not real tortoiseshell, but an imitation. The only imitation for tortoiseshell is plastic, which I don't think this is because plastic doesn't crack in that way, and the blade is too old for plastic.

Well I don't know what it is, but it is NOT PLASTIC!

It does look like some cow horn that I've seen before, but this is more that an inch think at the base, and of a piece.

[S.Workman]

Originally Posted by dana_w

Well I don't know what it is, but it is NOT PLASTIC!

It does look like some cow horn that I've seen before, but this is more that an inch think at the base, and of a piece.

Yes, but there are some big cows out there. I bought a piece of horn that was 15/16" and more than 5" long to hilt a knife I made, although I am sad to say that I ruined it being clumsy. In any event, you ought to search through this forum for some info on flushing out your potential stowaway. He may be long gone, but the dust they leave behind wicks moisture into the horn, and thats not good. Plus, he could still be in there, munching happily on your horn hilt. I would start be gently picking at the hole with a toothpick, then spraying it out with keyboard duster. Also, are you sure that the tang doesn't go through? That looks suspiciously like a peened over tang at the end in your picture.

[dana_w]

Originally Posted by S.Workman

In any event, you ought to search through this forum for some info on flushing out your potential stowaway. He may be long gone, but the dust they leave behind wicks moisture into the horn, and thats not good. Plus, he could still be in there, munching happily on your horn hilt. I would start be gently picking at the hole with a toothpick, then spraying it out with keyboard duster.

This dagger has been in the collection for over ten years. Nothing has changed in the way it looks, and I haven't seen any residue from resent activity. I hate messing with it, but I'll consider your suggestion.

Originally Posted by S.Workman

Also, are you sure that the tang doesn't go through? That looks suspiciously like a peened over tang at the end in your picture.

I'm not sure, but I don't think so. The recessed oval area you are talking about is off centered and seems to be made of the same material as the grip. It could be that it is a hole that has been filled, but it doesn't look like a peened over tang to me.

Then again, the blade is fastened to the grip somehow.

[ashoka]

looks like tortoiseshell to me. Would be totally appropriate for the quality/age/origin of the knife

[dana_w]

Originally Posted by ashoka

looks like tortoiseshell to me. Would be totally appropriate for the quality/age/origin of the knife

Thanks ashoka. I haven't seen enough examples of tortoiseshell to know. Can tortoiseshell be over an inch thick?

[Shakethetrees]

Originally Posted by dana_w

Thanks ashoka. I haven't seen enough examples of tortoiseshell to know. Can tortoiseshell be over an inch thick?

Tortoise she'll can be "welded" into a thick mass and carved into handles, etc.

I think it's tortoise shell. I've examined a lot of it over the years. Horn, while also having the translucence of tortoise shell, does not have the color or richness.

Both are favorites of the dermis rid beetle larva. I get rid of them by wrapping them up in plastic and deep freezing for several weeks or longer. You will want to wax the blade well first for moisture protection.

After it thaws, (slowly!), I like to inject mineral spirits into all holes.

Bugs hate this stuff, as it causes instantaneous breakdown of their nervous systems. If you want to do a test, throw some on an active wasp nest. Besides being a little adventurous, it quickly and dramatically works. Even a spray bottle with mineral spirits will work on a swarm coming after you if your courage is up for it. They will fly through it and drop like rocks! Of course you have to wait until the las second to do this or the mist will dissipate, leaving you with some painful reminders...

Think of it like a duel on a small scale.

[dana_w]

Originally Posted by Shakethetrees

Tortoise she'll can be "welded" into a thick mass and carved into handles, etc.

I think it's tortoise shell. I've examined a lot of it over the years. Horn, while also having the translucence of tortoise shell, does not have the color or richness.

Thanks for your comments Shakethetrees. I wish the photos were a little better.

I own an excavated Berber Sabre. Its grip is made from layers of cow horn glued and pegged together, so I've seen something like what you are talking about.

The daggers handle really looks like it is one piece. There is no visible evidence of layering that I can see.

[Bob A]

Tortoiseshell has been used as a veneer over wood, which is what this looks like to me. Nice touch of additional elegance for an already attractive dagger.

[dana_w]

Originally Posted by Bob A

Tortoiseshell has been used as a veneer over wood, which is what this looks like to me. Nice touch of additional elegance for an already attractive dagger.

The end of the grip looks very wooden to me too Bob A, see my first post in this thread. But the grip also looks to be of one piece. I wish the photos could show it a little better. There is nothing like having something in your hand and a good tactical flashlight.