Another Keris

Bill M · 20th March 2015, 03:18 PM

Without me stating what I think this to be, would like your opinions. Please be frank in your comments.

David · 20th March 2015, 05:20 PM

Well frankly Bill, i would rather hear what YOU think it is first.
Personally i have never made any claims at being particularly good at naming and categorizing keris. Naming pamors and dhapurs has never been my strong suit and in many ways i find it to be secondary to a deeper understanding of the keris. I have never bought a keris because of what i was told it was supposed to be, but rather because that particular keris "called" to me. As for tangguh, i won't even pretend to fully understand the process. The most important thing i could probably say about that here is that it is generally not really possible to do correctly without the keris in hand. Photographs do not convey enough information. But i can usually tell a old keris from a new one.
That said, i like this keris. It appears to have two pamor patterns (dwi warno), one that is sada sader, the other i am not sure of. I also see what look like brighter "dots" of pamor material along the blade. If i were feeling really inventive i might want to image those as meteoric pamor. But seeing as how there is really no way to truly establish that i would just note it as "interesting".

The keris looks old to me, older than the 19th century. Again, i don't have the skill set to do tangguh, especially from a photograph, but if forced to pick a century i might place this in the late 16th- early 17th C.
The more recent dress is Surakarta Ladrang. The wrongoko is iras, made all in one piece with the top sheath and stem, a more difficult and rarer sheath form. From the fit it seems likely that the sheath was made specifically for the blade. I cannot tell the materials of the blewah pendok. It looks like it might be brass with perhaps a gold wash or plating on top.
All in all it looks like a nice, well maintained old keris with a well executed pamor. Something that i would be more than happy to have in my collection.

Bill M · 21st March 2015, 12:53 AM

David, You and I are a lot alike. I buy because I like. It speaks to me. Usually in a kinesthetic way, a feeling. I like this one. It has a very deep and powerful feeling, in the hand.

Here is what I know.
Madura
Blade 150+ years old
Dress 80-90 years old

Dapur? Tangguh? Pamor? Old? New?

I would like to know more, and that would be fun. But for me, when I look at fine art, the kind that grabs you by the solar plexus, I care more about that feeling than who made the paints, the canvas, The frame, what was going through the artist's mind.

I like the blade. It has soul. I like the dress. It depth of age. Chatoyancy. It has been loved and cherished. I like the feeling when I hold it. Enough.

I saw it. I liked it. I bought it. Just like everything else.

However, now I would like to know more about it. What does the pamor mean? The dapur? The number of luks?

Will M · 21st March 2015, 05:03 AM

The sheath compliments the blade very well.
Actually it's hard to stop looking at this blade, appears ageless.
Reminds me of a sliver from an ancient rock formation, almost as if the centre of it once flowed out the top.

Bill M · 21st March 2015, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will M

The sheath compliments the blade very well.
Actually it's hard to stop looking at this blade, appears ageless.
Reminds me of a sliver from an ancient rock formation, almost as if the centre of it once flowed out the top.

YES!

Art is ageless and keeps changing. Every time I look at something like this it is different and a new aspect is presented.

When I acquire something, it can be that it has one thing that I like, yet the more I study it, keep it beside me (on the breakfast table?) the more it opens up with new interesting facets. What is this object? Wood and metal and something more??

Sometimes it seems that something -someone- is looking back at me. A man?

In the beginning I try -no, I DO- look at pieces like this without thinking about the pamor, dapor, etc. But once it has made an impression, I want to know more. What does the pamor tell us? What was the person like who commissioned this keris? Student? Military? Farmer?

Bill M · 17th January 2019, 07:02 PM

Here is what I know.
Madura
Blade 150+ years old
Dress 80-90 years old

David · 18th January 2019, 12:34 AM

Well, the only thing i will change from my last set of comments is that i was probably thing 1600-1700 instead of century, because i don't think it would be as old as 16th century. Most probably sometime in the 18th century.

Still a handsome keris that i would not at all mind in my own collection.

Green · 18th January 2019, 09:46 AM

how would anyone estimate this keris as old as 17th century? what kind of parameters are used to arrive at this estimate?

i am too inexperienced to make a guess but would love to learn more!

20th March 2015, 03:18 PM	#1
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Another Keris Without me stating what I think this to be, would like your opinions. Please be frank in your comments. Attached Images

20th March 2015, 05:20 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	Well frankly Bill, i would rather hear what YOU think it is first. Personally i have never made any claims at being particularly good at naming and categorizing keris. Naming pamors and dhapurs has never been my strong suit and in many ways i find it to be secondary to a deeper understanding of the keris. I have never bought a keris because of what i was told it was supposed to be, but rather because that particular keris "called" to me. As for tangguh, i won't even pretend to fully understand the process. The most important thing i could probably say about that here is that it is generally not really possible to do correctly without the keris in hand. Photographs do not convey enough information. But i can usually tell a old keris from a new one. That said, i like this keris. It appears to have two pamor patterns (dwi warno), one that is sada sader, the other i am not sure of. I also see what look like brighter "dots" of pamor material along the blade. If i were feeling really inventive i might want to image those as meteoric pamor. But seeing as how there is really no way to truly establish that i would just note it as "interesting". The keris looks old to me, older than the 19th century. Again, i don't have the skill set to do tangguh, especially from a photograph, but if forced to pick a century i might place this in the late 16th- early 17th C. The more recent dress is Surakarta Ladrang. The wrongoko is iras, made all in one piece with the top sheath and stem, a more difficult and rarer sheath form. From the fit it seems likely that the sheath was made specifically for the blade. I cannot tell the materials of the blewah pendok. It looks like it might be brass with perhaps a gold wash or plating on top. All in all it looks like a nice, well maintained old keris with a well executed pamor. Something that i would be more than happy to have in my collection.

21st March 2015, 12:53 AM	#3
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	David, You and I are a lot alike. I buy because I like. It speaks to me. Usually in a kinesthetic way, a feeling. I like this one. It has a very deep and powerful feeling, in the hand. Here is what I know. Madura Blade 150+ years old Dress 80-90 years old Dapur? Tangguh? Pamor? Old? New? I would like to know more, and that would be fun. But for me, when I look at fine art, the kind that grabs you by the solar plexus, I care more about that feeling than who made the paints, the canvas, The frame, what was going through the artist's mind. I like the blade. It has soul. I like the dress. It depth of age. Chatoyancy. It has been loved and cherished. I like the feeling when I hold it. Enough. I saw it. I liked it. I bought it. Just like everything else. However, now I would like to know more about it. What does the pamor mean? The dapur? The number of luks?

21st March 2015, 05:03 AM	#4
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 391	The sheath compliments the blade very well. Actually it's hard to stop looking at this blade, appears ageless. Reminds me of a sliver from an ancient rock formation, almost as if the centre of it once flowed out the top.

17th January 2019, 07:02 PM	#6
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Here is what I know. Madura Blade 150+ years old Dress 80-90 years old

18th January 2019, 12:34 AM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	Well, the only thing i will change from my last set of comments is that i was probably thing 1600-1700 instead of century, because i don't think it would be as old as 16th century. Most probably sometime in the 18th century. Still a handsome keris that i would not at all mind in my own collection.

18th January 2019, 09:46 AM	#8
Green Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Malaysia Posts: 312	how would anyone estimate this keris as old as 17th century? what kind of parameters are used to arrive at this estimate? i am too inexperienced to make a guess but would love to learn more!