A 17th century dagger?

blue lander · 20th February 2015, 08:08 PM

Just won this one for a very suspiciously low price... The seller says it's late 17th century and authentic but I wouldn't be surprised if it's a repro (albeit an older one). I like the looks of it either way. What do you think?

45.5 cm total, 31cm blade

Will M · 21st February 2015, 12:23 AM

Has a nice profile and at least 100 years old.

Is that small mark by the cross guard a mark stamped into it?

M ELEY · 21st February 2015, 06:28 AM

I agree with Will. Perhaps a Victorian-era reproduction of high quality. Hate to use the word 'repro' when describing these types, as (most) were made of very high quality to represent their originals. Created for the astute English gentleman for his trophy room or den when the demand far outreached the supply...

blue lander · 21st February 2015, 06:48 PM

These are the only pictures I have of it. The seller's in Ukraine so it's going to take awhile to get here. Hopefully it's as sturdily made as it looks.

Any idea what kind of dagger it's supposed to be? A main gauche?

Sajen · 22nd February 2015, 12:00 AM

Very nice dagger with good age, like it very much!

When you don't like it send it to me.

Regards,
Detlef

blue lander · 22nd February 2015, 01:57 AM

Thanks! I'm not getting my hopes up yet, I'll be surprised if the sale was legit. Besides the super low price, it was the seller's first auction. He also only wanted 12 euros to ship to the us which is the same amount he wanted for western Europe. Just doesn't add up. But the price was low enough to make it worth the risk.

M ELEY · 22nd February 2015, 04:32 AM

With roughly a 12" blade, it could easily be a parrying dagger, especially with the longer quillons. Strictly speaking, the Spanish main gauche had hilts that covered the hand with a semi-basket guard. Not sure if the wooden grip is a replacement or ?. The grip does remind one of some of the Holbein styles of daggers of the same period. Loosely speaking, of course. I'm trying to remember where I've seen the grip style before. Not a Rondel, but perhaps a pattern along the same lines? Dagger experts out there?

M ELEY · 22nd February 2015, 04:48 AM

OPPS! Stand corrected about gauches. Some were indeed 'open', with either a ring guard or just the extended quillons.

Hey Blue, if this piece turns out to be legit, you have got yourself a sweet find! If Victorian repro, its still an excellent deal for the price. If a modern repro, its what you paid and appears quality made. If not shipped at all, ouch!

Take some more closeup pics of the wood hilt when (if!) it arrives. My poor eyes start to see things, like legit aging/patina (??) and possibly worm holes (?). Wormy ash wood was an extremely popular wood used for dagger hilts, pike hafts, etc, back in the day...

Sajen · 22nd February 2015, 10:26 AM

Good luck for receiving it!

blue lander · 23rd February 2015, 12:54 AM

I guess there's nothing to do now but wait. Here's two more pictures from the auction I forgot to include.

Will M · 23rd February 2015, 04:50 AM

I hope you have good luck getting it.

One thing you can do is ask to have a photo sent to you with something particular beside the item like that days newspaper, it proves the seller owns it.

A few years ago there was a European seller on Ebay who copied other sellers photos from their listing and used these to make his auction for the sword.
He never owned the sword, just started a listing and collected payment.

When you scan auctions enough you remember seeing particular photos.
That seller was soon kicked off but they have a way of creeping back.

blue lander · 23rd February 2015, 02:45 PM

Thanks, that's good advice.

I know it's tacky to say how much you paid for something, but for the point of context, I got this for a "buy it now" price of 30 euros. That's barely enough to be worth stealing.

fernando · 23rd February 2015, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue lander

... I know it's tacky to say how much you paid for something, but for the point of context ...

For the point of context alright

Will M · 23rd February 2015, 04:25 PM

The seller forgot the other "zero"

blue lander · 23rd February 2015, 05:01 PM

Or maybe he meant it to be an auction and 30 euros was just the starting price.

blue lander · 26th February 2015, 08:09 PM

Update: The guy put up a few more auctions, most of which started at 30 euros. I bid on and won a rather unremarkable kindjal from him. The seller contacted me and said he'd combine shipping with the 17th century dagger. So I guess that means he at least intends to send it to me...

20th February 2015, 08:08 PM	#1
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	A 17th century dagger? Just won this one for a very suspiciously low price... The seller says it's late 17th century and authentic but I wouldn't be surprised if it's a repro (albeit an older one). I like the looks of it either way. What do you think? 45.5 cm total, 31cm blade Attached Images Last edited by blue lander; 20th February 2015 at 08:32 PM.

23rd February 2015, 12:54 AM	#10
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	I guess there's nothing to do now but wait. Here's two more pictures from the auction I forgot to include. Attached Images

21st February 2015, 12:23 AM	#2
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 391	Has a nice profile and at least 100 years old. Is that small mark by the cross guard a mark stamped into it?

21st February 2015, 06:28 AM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	I agree with Will. Perhaps a Victorian-era reproduction of high quality. Hate to use the word 'repro' when describing these types, as (most) were made of very high quality to represent their originals. Created for the astute English gentleman for his trophy room or den when the demand far outreached the supply...

21st February 2015, 06:48 PM	#4
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	These are the only pictures I have of it. The seller's in Ukraine so it's going to take awhile to get here. Hopefully it's as sturdily made as it looks. Any idea what kind of dagger it's supposed to be? A main gauche?

22nd February 2015, 12:00 AM	#5
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Very nice dagger with good age, like it very much! When you don't like it send it to me. Regards, Detlef

22nd February 2015, 01:57 AM	#6
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Thanks! I'm not getting my hopes up yet, I'll be surprised if the sale was legit. Besides the super low price, it was the seller's first auction. He also only wanted 12 euros to ship to the us which is the same amount he wanted for western Europe. Just doesn't add up. But the price was low enough to make it worth the risk.

22nd February 2015, 04:32 AM	#7
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	With roughly a 12" blade, it could easily be a parrying dagger, especially with the longer quillons. Strictly speaking, the Spanish main gauche had hilts that covered the hand with a semi-basket guard. Not sure if the wooden grip is a replacement or ?. The grip does remind one of some of the Holbein styles of daggers of the same period. Loosely speaking, of course. I'm trying to remember where I've seen the grip style before. Not a Rondel, but perhaps a pattern along the same lines? Dagger experts out there?

22nd February 2015, 04:48 AM	#8
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	OPPS! Stand corrected about gauches. Some were indeed 'open', with either a ring guard or just the extended quillons. Hey Blue, if this piece turns out to be legit, you have got yourself a sweet find! If Victorian repro, its still an excellent deal for the price. If a modern repro, its what you paid and appears quality made. If not shipped at all, ouch! Take some more closeup pics of the wood hilt when (if!) it arrives. My poor eyes start to see things, like legit aging/patina (??) and possibly worm holes (?). Wormy ash wood was an extremely popular wood used for dagger hilts, pike hafts, etc, back in the day...

22nd February 2015, 10:26 AM	#9
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Good luck for receiving it!

23rd February 2015, 04:50 AM	#11
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 391	I hope you have good luck getting it. One thing you can do is ask to have a photo sent to you with something particular beside the item like that days newspaper, it proves the seller owns it. A few years ago there was a European seller on Ebay who copied other sellers photos from their listing and used these to make his auction for the sword. He never owned the sword, just started a listing and collected payment. When you scan auctions enough you remember seeing particular photos. That seller was soon kicked off but they have a way of creeping back.

23rd February 2015, 02:45 PM	#12
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Thanks, that's good advice. I know it's tacky to say how much you paid for something, but for the point of context, I got this for a "buy it now" price of 30 euros. That's barely enough to be worth stealing.

23rd February 2015, 04:25 PM	#14
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 391	The seller forgot the other "zero"

23rd February 2015, 05:01 PM	#15
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Or maybe he meant it to be an auction and 30 euros was just the starting price.

26th February 2015, 08:09 PM	#16
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Update: The guy put up a few more auctions, most of which started at 30 euros. I bid on and won a rather unremarkable kindjal from him. The seller contacted me and said he'd combine shipping with the 17th century dagger. So I guess that means he at least intends to send it to me...