Unusual powder tester for comments

[fernando]

Well, unusual for me, as i have always seen these things shaped like pistols ... handle, trigger and all.
This one has a more austere look, more like a 'lab tool' .
... and the ignition system is fascinating; different from the classic flint or percussion mode. Was the technique priming the touch hole lip with some powder or instead the match cord way ?
An 18th century example for sure, right ?
The handle is horn; which type, i don't know for sure.
... as i wouldn't know the origin of this device .
Any help in part or the whole query, please ?


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[Matchlock]

Hi Nando,


I cannot say much more on this specimen than this: it was apparently made in the first half of the 19th century and widely used by dealers and shooters alike in order to test the quality of black powder. The toothed wheel is scaled to indicate the degree of intensity/quality at the time of explosion of the powder.

You say that you have mostly known similar tools with pistol grips so far. This may be due to the fact that most of them were table lighters for private use at home, most of them equiped with flintlock mechanisms.

Attached please find images of a flintlock table lighter for ignition of a matchcord, first half 18th c., another for igniting a candle, English, mid-18th c., and a flintlock powder tester, ca. 1800.


Best,
Michl

[fernando]

Thank you for the prompt reaction, Michl .
I suspect however that my point was missed .
I know (knew) how powder testers work, as i am familiar with candle lighters; but none of those have a straight handle or and a manual ignition system, instead of the current mechanical ones ... flint, percussion, etc.
I also don't see how in the 19th century, this 'cannon/gonne' ignition style was still in use

[Matchlock]

Hi Nando,


Though maybe not as explicitly as I had been hoping, I did try to meet your point in my reply. Please do forgive my obvious headiness, my dear friend!

Seen from the standpoint of an art historian, the (Neo-)Gothic style of the straight, plain handle perfectly corresponds to the 19th c. philosophy of 're-enlivening' the old Gothic style, and is clearly recognizable to me in this object.
Sadly I cannot tell how it was actually ignited, either, as I have never handled such an item (it's just way too 'young' to startle a true Gothic and Renaissance freak like me).
I am positive though that some of our members can. In any case, the ignition must have been very easy to achieve.


Best wishes,
Michl

[Marcus den toom]

I tried to find similair examples on the web.. acording to the authors on these web pages this kind of powder tester was also in use in the 18th century, but the style differs from Fernando's powder tester and the truthfullness about these claims might be clouded by the sellers "ambition"
I did find a nice website though (pitt rivers museum).

http://web.prm.ox.ac.uk/weapons/inde...359/index.html

http://merzantiques.com/item/very-unusual-powder-tester ( http://www.icollector.com/17th-centu...ture_i11291595 )

http://www.icollector.com/Early-powd...rule_i11291691

[Matchlock]

Thanks a lot, Marcus,


For searching (and finding!) this excellent material!

Could you please post here on the forum the respective images and descriptions in the links you found? I am requesting this considering the fact that many links tend to vanish from the web each day, so we would all be glad to find the material documented here.


Thanks again, and best wishes,
Michael

[Marcus den toom]

My pleasure

And as requested:

"This device for testing gunpowder was made in Avignon, France and dates to the 17th or early 18th century.

The amount of powder charge needed to pour down the muzzle of a gun depended on the strength of the powder, as well as the barrel length and bullet size. Testers tended to use the same mechanisms as the guns of the day, so this example with a nicely turned-wood handle and iron ratchet wheel, probably dates to the wheel-lock era. Samples of powder were ignited in the touch-hole and forced the wheel to rotate by means of a spring. Originally the wheel would have been marked with graduations from which the strength of the powder could be calculated."


"In the shape of some sort of mythological peacock/serpent standing on four feet. Bird's head on one end and a turned wood grip on the other. Very nice item marked "H K C". Graduated wheel is marked from 0-25. Very decorative piece. Well made and in excellent condition with a nice aged brass patina coloration."
The auction discription:
"17th century style cast-brass body powder tester with turned wood grip of 20th century manufacture, signed by Coulter “HKC / 12-67”. Measures 13” from end to end. Made with a high degree of quality and precision andshows good aging. Keith Coulter was an excellent craftsman and he did work only for his own purposes, not for resale or forgery. From the Keith Coulter collection"



"Early powder tester circa 1700 – 1750. 10-1/4” overall, 4-1/2” turned wood grip with brass ferrule connected to a straight steel platform with graduated wheel showing hand-engraved numbers and tension spring.With touch hole cover. Very good condition, normal aging, small chip to the grip. Similar to example pictured in Eprouvettes by Kempers, page 92. From the Keith Coulter collection"

[Matchlock]

Perfectly done, thank you for your kindness!

I profoundly disagree with the early dates obviously assigned by dealers to the objects; to me they are all 1st half to mid-19th c.

Best,
m

[fernando]

Very good and fast input, Marcus. Thank you for bringing in 'non pistol' style examples .
Certainly PittRivers and the 'ambitious' seller of the other example are claiming wrong dating.
... and the sexy 17th "style" four legged one might even be a 20th century replica ... or contemporary imagination .
I wonder if both PittRivers and the Commercial site are making some confusion with the touchole issue ... or is it me ? One thing is the little 'hole' in the base where you submit the ignition and the other thing is the 'deposit' where you fill the powder to be tested ... sorry the funny lexicon. It seems as they are calling touchole the late part.
Obviously i might be wrong; my knowledge is very superficial. Correct me if i am wrong .


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[Marcus den toom]

Hi Fernando,

I must appologize for the lack of other pictures which gives also a view of the other side of the powder testers (with touch hole).
The bronze 4 legged one and the third one from post #7 where both made by the collector Keith Coulter, who according to the auction website who sold these items before, made these powder testers for his own collection and not for fraudulent purposes. Thus these are modern replicas, most likely using multiple styles? (confusing )

Here are the pictures from the touch hole side, notice the second powder tester of this post. It has a spring next to the powder 'deposit', i wonder what this might do.

[Matchlock]

With these on our site we have, I guess, a full spectrum of powder testers, starting with an early instance of the second half of the 17th c. (top attachments), featuring an English model signed by Woolley, ca. 1780 (made of brass), and including a modern copy (the one on the percussion system).

m

[Matchlock]

Two more, the one on top Spanish, dated 1865.

[Matchlock]

A Dutch model with ivory grip, 2nd half 17th c., a mid-18th c. specimen and two of late 18th c. date, the second employing a Spanish miquelet lock mechanism.

m

[Marcus den toom]

I remembered this powder tester from an auction (probus auction 21). It is dated 1701 and "Richter Koln". I hope i don't have to censor the sexual content, since the overall picture does show a good portret of that periods style.
The auction labeled it as barock, but i would also say some renaissance content ?
It is 23 cm long.

[Matchlock]

Great find, Marcus,

The Baroque style evolved straight out of the Renaissance, retaining many aspects of the former époque.

m

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Marcus den toom

Hi Fernando,

I must appologize for the lack of other pictures which gives also a view of the other side of the powder testers (with touch hole)...

Oh no Marcus, all was fine enough from your side.
The touchole confusion was on the sites descriptions, not on the 'missing' pictures.

Originally Posted by Marcus den toom

...The bronze 4 legged one and the third one from post #7 where both made by the collector Keith Coulter, who according to the auction website who sold these items before, made these powder testers for his own collection and not for fraudulent purposes. Thus these are modern replicas, most likely using multiple styles? (confusing )...

After you posted the links, i went browsing on the sources of those examples ... and also on the Keith Coulter issue. That's why i guessed on the fantasy of the peculiar example.

Originally Posted by Marcus den toom

...It has a spring next to the powder 'deposit', i wonder what this might do. ...

If you read the description, it says "with touchole cover". Perhaps that is a sort of dust cover ... or for avoiding the priming powder to fall off (?). The spring is there to secure the cover ... and maybe to turn aside to open.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

With these on our site we have, I guess, a full spectrum of powder testers, starting with an early instance of the second half of the 17th c. (top attachments), featuring an English model signed by Woolley, ca. 1780 (made of brass), and including a modern copy (the one on the percussion system).

m

Fantabulous Michl,
Great and varied examples.
I don't want to jump to conclusions as i lack the experience to perceive that determined examples from different countries follow the same fashion; otherwise i would say that my specimen is Spanish, when comparing it with the one made by Lucas Ortiz de Zarate ... although i die for mine not being from the 18th century, even if by the end ... horn grip and all

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Marcus den toom

I remembered this powder tester from an auction (probus auction 21). It is dated 1701 and "Richter Koln". I hope i don't have to censor the sexual content, since the overall picture does show a good portret of that periods style. ..

That is amazing !!!
Michl also showed us one with the same attitude in his post #13.
Certainly a fashion ... maybe with a meaning .

Oh, only now i notice that Marcus's example is more (humanly) complete than that one posted by Michl

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Two more, the one on top Spanish, dated 1865.

Say Michl, how long ago has this auction taken place ?
I am trying to figure out whether my example, just acquired, cost me a good or a bad price.

[Matchlock]

Of course, Sir Nando,


Right at your command and service:
here are the hammer prices (plus 23 per cent commission for the buyer, minus 23 per cent for the consigner) of Hermann Historica's Munich back till 2012 (descending). As they prove, prices greatly vary.
Please forgive me for not finding exactly the items posted before as I picked them up from the web at random.


Best,
Michl

[Matchlock]

Originally Posted by fernando

I wonder if both PittRivers and the Commercial site are making some confusion with the touchole issue ... or is it me ? One thing is the little 'hole' in the base where you submit the ignition and the other thing is the 'deposit' where you fill the powder to be tested ... sorry the funny lexicon. It seems as they are calling touchole the late part.
.

Hi Nando,


Not being in the least familiar with these objects, I have been wondering ever since you asked this question in post #9.

I guess you must be right: the small external trough marked by you must have been an igniting pan for priming powder, probably lit by a glowing pinewood chip always kept ready in any average home (German: Kienspan). This then lead to the explosion of the testing powder.


Best,
m

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Of course, Sir Nando,
Right at your command and service: ...

Thank you for the pictures and for the reverence, Sir Miguel .
... although none of them has the date the auction took place, which was my humble request; you know, trying to update the prices ... inflation and all .

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

... I guess you must be right: the small external trough marked by you must have been an igniting pan for priming powder, probably lit by a glowing pinewood chip ...

Sure thing Michl,
... Reason why i found this primitive system example more appealing that the mostly seen ones operated by 'mechanical' striking.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

With these on our site we have, I guess, a full spectrum of powder testers, starting with an early instance of the second half of the 17th c....

Let me then widen the spectrum ... back to the dawn of powder testing.
Images drawn for a rather interesting article written by Dr. H. G. Muller:
http://www.reenactor.ru/ARH/PDF/Muller_H._G.pdf
I am trying to find the author's email address, to query him on my example but, so far, had no result. Anyone has an idea how to get it ?

.

[Marcus den toom]

Originally Posted by fernando

Say Michl, how long ago has this auction taken place ?
I am trying to figure out whether my example, just acquired, cost me a good or a bad price.

I think we should put your example somewhere in the €350-450,- range Fernando, though not very old, all of them seem very collectible. As always, the price differs with the quality, rarity, maker, age, provenance, etc.

The handle on your powder tester was amde in the same way and from the same material as my indoor door handles. The house was made in 1920's.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Marcus den toom

The handle on your powder tester was made in the same way and from the same material as my indoor door handles. The house was made in 1920's.

Thank you Marcus, but we better not express values under discussion terms; only (non posted) considerations on prices accidently shown in Web images .

You are not assuming that my powder tester is as new as 1920
I would be most surprised that you door handles are of horn; may i call it insolit ?!
But if you only refer to its shape and apparent method i don't need to remind you that such design may be centuries old .

[Matchlock]

Some more samples of powder testers, all four 2nd half to late 17th c.

m

[fernando]

Ah ... the testing tube with the touchole


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[fernando]

Scanning and selecting an example shown in page 166 of Collector's Illustrated Encyclopedia of the American Revoliution, by George Neumann & frank J. Kravic.
Recalling the 'early' origins of this type of tester plus an interesting description of the ignition system.


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[fernando]

I have received comments from Spanish collector, author and documentalist of the former Montjuic Museum of Barcelona, Mr. Juan Luis Calvó, in which he concurs that my example is Spanish, apparently earlier than 1800.
He also sent me a picture of the (only) example in his collection, attributedly Spanish, in which we can see a strong resemblance with mine.

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