Ebay keris for discussion

Sajen · 13th October 2013, 09:14 PM

Today ended this keris by ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SuperB-and-v...vip=true&rt=nc
I have attached some of the auction pictures and I am very curious what other members have to say about this keris. BTW, I am not the winner.

A. G. Maisey · 13th October 2013, 10:33 PM

The link does not appear to work.

Sajen · 13th October 2013, 10:44 PM

double post, sorry!

Sajen · 13th October 2013, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

The link does not appear to work.

Sorry Alan, just try it, by my pc it works.

Here again: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SuperB-and-v...vip=true&rt=nc

A. G. Maisey · 13th October 2013, 11:18 PM

Thanks mate. Yep, that link works for me.

I'm going to reserve comment, but I will say that I find the description very interesting.

Battara · 14th October 2013, 12:57 AM

Uh......the blade looks recent to me I'm afraid....

Jean · 14th October 2013, 10:27 AM

I agree with Alan and Battara, I also followed this auction just out of curiosity and it is amazing to notice that 4 bidders fiercly competed for getting this piece, great Ebay seller!

Regards

David · 14th October 2013, 04:31 PM

hmmm...the seller claims the hilt is fish bone, which from my experience generally refers to whale bone in SEA. This, however, looks nothing like whale bone. He also mentions suasa as a material, but i don't see where that would be. I do notice he offers a "lifetime" guarantee...whose lifetime may still be in question...

Jean · 14th October 2013, 08:40 PM

Yes, from the pictures the hilt appears to be made from elephant ivory and it looks quite nice, but it does not justify such high bids

The seller may have mentioned fish bone just for avoiding any problems with ivory regulations?
Regards

Henk · 14th October 2013, 09:05 PM

I do remember the shop when I looked on google streetview. I used to walk a lot in the antique neighbourhood during my lunchbreak when i worked in Amsterdam. Not a keris specialist for sure, or am i getting to personal now?
If so, moderators feel free to delete this.

Anyway, a great dress with Ivory ukiran. No i don't think he is avoiding regulations. Rather a lack of knowledge. The keris itself? Could be an older blade. But if so recently reworked and destroyed for the western market.

Very high price for a great Maduran dress.

A. G. Maisey · 14th October 2013, 10:04 PM

I know that we're not supposed to discuss prices and commercial aspects of keris here, so I am going to try to keep my comments within the parameters already set by others.

If I step over the mark please delete my post.

If I look at the price achieved by this keris and then I add together the trade price in Indonesia of each individual component, and then add in a dealer's overheads and margin, this is not really a very high price. I do agree that it is higher than some people could sell for, but it is not way out there in ripoff territory.

Check the prices asked by Singapore and Jakarta dealers for old ivory hilts of similar quality and for silver pendok. Add in the cost of the blade and other dress items.

The seller is a dealer in Europe, it is unreasonable to expect him to sell at the level of an old lady at a garage sale or in a weekend market. I have some old catalogues that were published by Hales & Barrett (?) way back in the 1960's - 70's. You should see the prices asked for hilts in those catalogues if you need a reality check of prices in the current market --- I'm not talking low here, I'm talking exorbitantly high.

In Venice last year I saw several Madura ivory hilts of very modest quality and condition. These were very much over-priced, with the asking price running to thousands of euros.

All things considered I really don't think that this can be considered to be an exceptionally high price for this keris.

The blade is not old and the keris itself is a montage, the value is in the individual components.

Jean · 15th October 2013, 10:17 AM

This piece seems to have stirred a lot of reactions among the collectors

I also don't want to discuss commercial aspects in detail but I agree with Henk that by European and especially Dutch standards this piece is much overpriced. Yes, you will find very expensive krisses or hilts in the antique shops or fairs but they won't sell except to a rich tourist.
Nowadays I think that there is clearly a kris market for the thrifty Western collectors (because of the economic crisis) and an Asian kris market for the more affluent people... Same situation with the French wines, I cannot afford a Chateau Margaux anymore

Regards

Sajen · 15th October 2013, 10:51 AM

Thank you all for comment. I also think that the blade is rather recent and don't know from where the seller take the description. But agree with Alan that good old/antique ivory handles can become very expensive and I have seen similar handles which were sold by a higher price as this keris complete.

Regards,

Detlef

13th October 2013, 09:14 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,776	Ebay keris for discussion Today ended this keris by ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SuperB-and-v...vip=true&rt=nc I have attached some of the auction pictures and I am very curious what other members have to say about this keris. BTW, I am not the winner. Attached Images

13th October 2013, 10:44 PM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,776	double post, sorry! Last edited by Sajen; 13th October 2013 at 11:01 PM. Reason: double post, sorry!

15th October 2013, 10:17 AM	#12
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	This piece seems to have stirred a lot of reactions among the collectors I also don't want to discuss commercial aspects in detail but I agree with Henk that by European and especially Dutch standards this piece is much overpriced. Yes, you will find very expensive krisses or hilts in the antique shops or fairs but they won't sell except to a rich tourist. Nowadays I think that there is clearly a kris market for the thrifty Western collectors (because of the economic crisis) and an Asian kris market for the more affluent people... Same situation with the French wines, I cannot afford a Chateau Margaux anymore Regards Last edited by Jean; 15th October 2013 at 10:27 AM.

13th October 2013, 10:33 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,890	The link does not appear to work.

13th October 2013, 11:18 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,890	Thanks mate. Yep, that link works for me. I'm going to reserve comment, but I will say that I find the description very interesting.

14th October 2013, 12:57 AM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Uh......the blade looks recent to me I'm afraid....

14th October 2013, 10:27 AM	#7
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	I agree with Alan and Battara, I also followed this auction just out of curiosity and it is amazing to notice that 4 bidders fiercly competed for getting this piece, great Ebay seller! Regards

14th October 2013, 04:31 PM	#8
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,121	hmmm...the seller claims the hilt is fish bone, which from my experience generally refers to whale bone in SEA. This, however, looks nothing like whale bone. He also mentions suasa as a material, but i don't see where that would be. I do notice he offers a "lifetime" guarantee...whose lifetime may still be in question...

14th October 2013, 08:40 PM	#9
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Yes, from the pictures the hilt appears to be made from elephant ivory and it looks quite nice, but it does not justify such high bids The seller may have mentioned fish bone just for avoiding any problems with ivory regulations? Regards

14th October 2013, 09:05 PM	#10
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	I do remember the shop when I looked on google streetview. I used to walk a lot in the antique neighbourhood during my lunchbreak when i worked in Amsterdam. Not a keris specialist for sure, or am i getting to personal now? If so, moderators feel free to delete this. Anyway, a great dress with Ivory ukiran. No i don't think he is avoiding regulations. Rather a lack of knowledge. The keris itself? Could be an older blade. But if so recently reworked and destroyed for the western market. Very high price for a great Maduran dress.

14th October 2013, 10:04 PM	#11
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,890	I know that we're not supposed to discuss prices and commercial aspects of keris here, so I am going to try to keep my comments within the parameters already set by others. If I step over the mark please delete my post. If I look at the price achieved by this keris and then I add together the trade price in Indonesia of each individual component, and then add in a dealer's overheads and margin, this is not really a very high price. I do agree that it is higher than some people could sell for, but it is not way out there in ripoff territory. Check the prices asked by Singapore and Jakarta dealers for old ivory hilts of similar quality and for silver pendok. Add in the cost of the blade and other dress items. The seller is a dealer in Europe, it is unreasonable to expect him to sell at the level of an old lady at a garage sale or in a weekend market. I have some old catalogues that were published by Hales & Barrett (?) way back in the 1960's - 70's. You should see the prices asked for hilts in those catalogues if you need a reality check of prices in the current market --- I'm not talking low here, I'm talking exorbitantly high. In Venice last year I saw several Madura ivory hilts of very modest quality and condition. These were very much over-priced, with the asking price running to thousands of euros. All things considered I really don't think that this can be considered to be an exceptionally high price for this keris. The blade is not old and the keris itself is a montage, the value is in the individual components.

15th October 2013, 10:51 AM	#13
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,776	Thank you all for comment. I also think that the blade is rather recent and don't know from where the seller take the description. But agree with Alan that good old/antique ivory handles can become very expensive and I have seen similar handles which were sold by a higher price as this keris complete. Regards, Detlef