Slightly unusual Barung

Spunjer · 16th September 2013, 09:08 PM

sharing this neat piece...

not the usual type in regards to the shape of the handle. also, the ferrule is made out of braided brass wires, and closest to the blade is a solid brass piece. the matching scabbard is an art unto itself; meticulously carved ukkil on the mouth and tail. especially love the naga ukkil smacked in the middle. blade is an older style and is laminated. i believe Rick has a similar type.
please enjoy, and comments are certainly welcome

VANDOO · 17th September 2013, 02:59 AM

A INTERESTING BARONG WITH SEVERAL UNUSUAL FEATURES. DO ANY OF THE FEATURES HELP YOU PIN IT DOWN AS TO LOCATION AND TIME PERIOD? THE CARVING IS DIFFERENT AND I AM NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE NAGA PATTERN YOU SPEAK OF. THE CENTER DESIGN AT THE THROAT LOOKS LIKE A LYRE (ANCIENT MUSICAL INSTURMENT) TO ME. THE FERULE BEING 5 OR 8 SIDED IS UNUSUAL AS WELL. NICE ONE

David · 17th September 2013, 04:13 AM

Ron, do you think that the hilt is original to the blade? You also mention the "matching" scabbard. In the photos at least the wood of the hilt looks darker than the scabbard and i can't even tell if it is the same type of wood. I also don't see any motif from the scabbard that is repeated on the hilt so i don't quite see the "matching" thing. Frankly the hilt looks a little bit like someone outside the culture trying to mimic what they have seen on traditional barung hilts...or it could just be an oddball old hilt...

ThePepperSkull · 17th September 2013, 06:15 AM

Beautiful, Ron!

Octagonal Moro hilts are something you don't often encounter outside of Pira, which is what first came to mind when I saw this.

CharlesS · 17th September 2013, 01:16 PM

Ron,

You already know I think this is a gorgeous piece of superb quality. I am a particularly big fan of the blade. Having seen it I feel very strongly that the scabbard and blade were "born together" as they are a perfect fit and look to match age-wise.

I cannot explain the rarity or reason for the unique nature of the octagonal Moro pieces, but we know they do exist, and the few examples seen seem to be of outstanding quality. Please see the pics below of a Moro spear with octagonal fittings discussed here some time ago.

David · 17th September 2013, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Having seen it I feel very strongly that the scabbard and blade were "born together" as they are a perfect fit and look to match age-wise.

Thanks for that confirmation Charles. Sometime photos don't quite make things so clear.
Nice spear BTW. :-)

Spunjer · 17th September 2013, 03:55 PM

from time to time, we see these oddball weapons that bucked the conventional style. octagonal shaped handles does pop up every now and then. the relatively common octagonal hilts usually have a horse hoof pattern on the end.
David, three different types of wood were used on this piece. a darker type was used for the handle; meanwhile, the scabbard has a light and dark side (see pic below).
as far as whether the barung was "born with" the scabbard:
one way to check whether the barung was born with the scabbard was to dismantle the scabbard itself. every now and then the rattan bind are missing, so this is easily done. once it's dismantle, you can lay the blade on the notch carved out for it, and since each blade is unique, it should have that "Cinderella shoes" fit to it, meaning a perfect match. in this particular piece, the binds look original to the piece, so i won't go into that, rather i placed the blade on the scabbard just to show the clearance from the sides and tip. very, very tight. hope this helps...
vandoo, the "lyre" image is the representation of the naga head in ukkil motif. notice the similarity on this barung from artzi's website. as far as location/date: Sulu. date is harder to pinpoint due to lack of provenance, but i would conservatively place it around mid 19th c...

David · 17th September 2013, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

as far as whether the barung was "born with" the scabbard:
one way to check whether the barung was born with the scabbard was to dismantle the scabbard itself. every now and then the rattan bind are missing, so this is easily done. once it's dismantle, you can lay the blade on the notch carved out for it, and since each blade is unique, it should have that "Cinderella shoes" fit to it, meaning a perfect match. in this particular piece, the binds look original to the piece, so i won't go into that, rather i placed the blade on the scabbard just to show the clearance from the sides and tip. very, very tight. hope this helps...

Well, what that might prove is that the scabbard was made specifically for the blade, but it doesn't prove it was "born with" it. I am not saying it was not, mind you, merely pointing out that your method is no guarantee that the sheath was made at the same time as the blade. Regardless, it is a nice and unusual piece.

Spunjer · 17th September 2013, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Well, what that might prove is that the scabbard was made specifically for the blade, but it doesn't prove it was "born with" it. I am not saying it was not, mind you, merely pointing out that your method is no guarantee that the sheath was made at the same time as the blade. Regardless, it is a nice and unusual piece.

true, true... i think i'm jumping the gun on this.

you mentioned similar motif on handle/scabbard. that is one method. most likely same craftsman for both pieces. in this case, i believe different craftsmen were involved in making the scabbard and handle, so technically not born with since it wasn't made by the same person, but made within the same time frame.

CharlesS · 17th September 2013, 04:53 PM

You both raise valid points....I think we can all agree this scabbard was made for this blade. In my mind, again having the advantage of having seen it, I think they match in age, but of course, as David points out, there are no guarantees. Lovely couple together under any circumstances!!

I also agree with Ron. Occasionally we have to get out of the mindset of a "cookie cutter" mentality that ALL sword(or blade) types must meet a prescribed formula in form and materials. Actually, I think many will agree, this is when the hobby becomes most fun...when we find that special piece that is clearly recognizable but "breaks the mold" so to speak.

Thanks again for sharing that fantastic piece!

BTW, perhaps I have overused one of my favorite catch phrases, borrowed from Artzi, that is "born together"....by that I mean in the most general sense of the term, that is, that a scabbard and blade both fit properly and appear via age and materials to be of the same era. This is not to say that the scabbard and blade must be made by the same person at the exact same time. Perhaps "belong together" would be a better and more appropriate phrase, but I likely will stick with "born together".....

Battara · 18th September 2013, 01:34 AM

Part of the difficulty is that sometimes the hilt may have been broken and replaced in earlier times. This one is made of narra wood, and from the inner part of the narra tree in particular.

I do love the ukkil crocodile in the middle of the wranga at top of the scabbard. Nice ukkil work period.

16th September 2013, 09:08 PM	#1
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	Slightly unusual Barung sharing this neat piece... not the usual type in regards to the shape of the handle. also, the ferrule is made out of braided brass wires, and closest to the blade is a solid brass piece. the matching scabbard is an art unto itself; meticulously carved ukkil on the mouth and tail. especially love the naga ukkil smacked in the middle. blade is an older style and is laminated. i believe Rick has a similar type. please enjoy, and comments are certainly welcome Attached Images

17th September 2013, 04:13 AM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,125	Ron, do you think that the hilt is original to the blade? You also mention the "matching" scabbard. In the photos at least the wood of the hilt looks darker than the scabbard and i can't even tell if it is the same type of wood. I also don't see any motif from the scabbard that is repeated on the hilt so i don't quite see the "matching" thing. Frankly the hilt looks a little bit like someone outside the culture trying to mimic what they have seen on traditional barung hilts...or it could just be an oddball old hilt... Last edited by David; 17th September 2013 at 05:22 AM.

17th September 2013, 01:16 PM	#5
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	Ron, You already know I think this is a gorgeous piece of superb quality. I am a particularly big fan of the blade. Having seen it I feel very strongly that the scabbard and blade were "born together" as they are a perfect fit and look to match age-wise. I cannot explain the rarity or reason for the unique nature of the octagonal Moro pieces, but we know they do exist, and the few examples seen seem to be of outstanding quality. Please see the pics below of a Moro spear with octagonal fittings discussed here some time ago. Attached Images

17th September 2013, 03:55 PM	#7
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	from time to time, we see these oddball weapons that bucked the conventional style. octagonal shaped handles does pop up every now and then. the relatively common octagonal hilts usually have a horse hoof pattern on the end. David, three different types of wood were used on this piece. a darker type was used for the handle; meanwhile, the scabbard has a light and dark side (see pic below). as far as whether the barung was "born with" the scabbard: one way to check whether the barung was born with the scabbard was to dismantle the scabbard itself. every now and then the rattan bind are missing, so this is easily done. once it's dismantle, you can lay the blade on the notch carved out for it, and since each blade is unique, it should have that "Cinderella shoes" fit to it, meaning a perfect match. in this particular piece, the binds look original to the piece, so i won't go into that, rather i placed the blade on the scabbard just to show the clearance from the sides and tip. very, very tight. hope this helps... vandoo, the "lyre" image is the representation of the naga head in ukkil motif. notice the similarity on this barung from artzi's website. as far as location/date: Sulu. date is harder to pinpoint due to lack of provenance, but i would conservatively place it around mid 19th c... Attached Images

17th September 2013, 04:53 PM	#10
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	You both raise valid points....I think we can all agree this scabbard was made for this blade. In my mind, again having the advantage of having seen it, I think they match in age, but of course, as David points out, there are no guarantees. Lovely couple together under any circumstances!! I also agree with Ron. Occasionally we have to get out of the mindset of a "cookie cutter" mentality that ALL sword(or blade) types must meet a prescribed formula in form and materials. Actually, I think many will agree, this is when the hobby becomes most fun...when we find that special piece that is clearly recognizable but "breaks the mold" so to speak. Thanks again for sharing that fantastic piece! BTW, perhaps I have overused one of my favorite catch phrases, borrowed from Artzi, that is "born together"....by that I mean in the most general sense of the term, that is, that a scabbard and blade both fit properly and appear via age and materials to be of the same era. This is not to say that the scabbard and blade must be made by the same person at the exact same time. Perhaps "belong together" would be a better and more appropriate phrase, but I likely will stick with "born together"..... Last edited by CharlesS; 17th September 2013 at 05:50 PM.

17th September 2013, 02:59 AM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	A INTERESTING BARONG WITH SEVERAL UNUSUAL FEATURES. DO ANY OF THE FEATURES HELP YOU PIN IT DOWN AS TO LOCATION AND TIME PERIOD? THE CARVING IS DIFFERENT AND I AM NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE NAGA PATTERN YOU SPEAK OF. THE CENTER DESIGN AT THE THROAT LOOKS LIKE A LYRE (ANCIENT MUSICAL INSTURMENT) TO ME. THE FERULE BEING 5 OR 8 SIDED IS UNUSUAL AS WELL. NICE ONE

17th September 2013, 06:15 AM	#4
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	Beautiful, Ron! Octagonal Moro hilts are something you don't often encounter outside of Pira, which is what first came to mind when I saw this.

18th September 2013, 01:34 AM	#11
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,225	Part of the difficulty is that sometimes the hilt may have been broken and replaced in earlier times. This one is made of narra wood, and from the inner part of the narra tree in particular. I do love the ukkil crocodile in the middle of the wranga at top of the scabbard. Nice ukkil work period.