Mystery item - a wrench (spanner) perhaps?

Lee · 17th February 2013, 05:55 PM

An unregistered reader sent the below photographs and would appreciate any help in identifying the object...

Atlantia · 17th February 2013, 06:05 PM

I'd say definately a wrench Lee.
I have one the same (in the shed somewhere) apart from the handle on mine doesn't have the extra shaping near the 'socket'.

I always assumed that it was early transport or agricultural related.
Possibly an early 20thC horse-drawn cart/buggy wrench.

fernando · 17th February 2013, 06:42 PM

A wrench indeed ... a small one.
In my corner of the world people used to have this type of spanners to operate water (and other) valves, to prevent abuse.

PClemente · 17th February 2013, 07:29 PM

Have we ruled out a wheelock spanner? I have seen some very detailed spanners, but also some more primitive examples similar in style to the piece shown.

Atlantia · 17th February 2013, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PClemente

Have we ruled out a wheelock spanner? I have seen some very detailed spanners, but also some more primitive examples similar in style to the piece shown.

I used to wind my Wheel-lock pistol with a grandfather clock key. The square section was about a cm on each side I'd guess.

Pukka Bundook · 17th February 2013, 10:14 PM

I believe Fernando has it.
I have a couple around here somewhere, and they were for water or gas taps.
One is brass with very nicley turned handle.

Wheellock spanners are much smaller in the square, as Atlantia said.

Richard.

Matchlock · 24th May 2014, 05:32 PM

Hi Lee,

Heureka - I finally identified your object in discussion:
It is a wheellock spanner indeed, closely datable to ca. 1590-1600, and a historically important piece as well, of noble provenance. It was part of a caliverman's accouterments to a wheellock musket - and it was kept on the leather frog, together with the powder flask!
But there is even more to your spanner:
It was part of the accouterments of a member of the famous Trabanten-Leibgarde (body guard) of the Electors of Saxony, Christian I, † 25. September 1591,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christi...ctor_of_Saxony

or Christian II, † 23. June 1611,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christi...ctor_of_Saxony

Enjoy your important spanner!

Attached please find a photo of exactly your type of spanner, together with the fine flask and leather frog, all of high-quality craftsmanship.
This ensemble is preserved in the Rüstkammer (armory) in Dresden, Saxony - see attachments!

The other attachments depict fine Saxon flasks and their frogs from various sources: The Walters Art Museum, Baltimore, from auction houses, dealers sites etc, as well as contemporary portraits of both Christian I and II, Electors of Saxony.

For more on such flasks and their frogs, please see my threads:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...man%27s+flasks

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...man%27s+flasks

Please also see my threads on wheellock spanners 1520-1650:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...-lock+spanners

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...-lock+spanners

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...-lock+spanners

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...llock+spanners

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...l-lock+spanner

Best,
Michael

Matchlock · 25th May 2014, 01:42 AM

Contemporay portraits of the Royal Electors of Saxony, Christian I and Christian II.

m

Tony PP · 25th May 2014, 04:40 AM

Hello, I have often found spanners(Wrench) looking very much like the one in the picture. These have been tied to old Victorian iron beds and used for doing up the corner posts. Cast iron construction and often crudely made.

Matchlock · 25th May 2014, 07:04 AM

So have I.
These are primitively cast iron late 19th century Victorian/Historismus copies ...
Your item may be such a copy as the edges seem suspiciously beveled, and the rust scars are not typical of wrought iron either.

m

17th February 2013, 05:55 PM	#1
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 914	Mystery item - a wrench (spanner) perhaps? An unregistered reader sent the below photographs and would appreciate any help in identifying the object... Attached Images

24th May 2014, 05:32 PM	#7
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Lee, Heureka - I finally identified your object in discussion: It is a wheellock spanner indeed, closely datable to ca. 1590-1600, and a historically important piece as well, of noble provenance. It was part of a caliverman's accouterments to a wheellock musket - and it was kept on the leather frog, together with the powder flask! But there is even more to your spanner: It was part of the accouterments of a member of the famous Trabanten-Leibgarde (body guard) of the Electors of Saxony, Christian I, † 25. September 1591, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christi...ctor_of_Saxony or Christian II, † 23. June 1611, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christi...ctor_of_Saxony Enjoy your important spanner! Attached please find a photo of exactly your type of spanner, together with the fine flask and leather frog, all of high-quality craftsmanship. This ensemble is preserved in the Rüstkammer (armory) in Dresden, Saxony - see attachments! The other attachments depict fine Saxon flasks and their frogs from various sources: The Walters Art Museum, Baltimore, from auction houses, dealers sites etc, as well as contemporary portraits of both Christian I and II, Electors of Saxony. For more on such flasks and their frogs, please see my threads: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...man%27s+flasks http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...man%27s+flasks Please also see my threads on wheellock spanners 1520-1650: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...-lock+spanners http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...-lock+spanners http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...-lock+spanners http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...llock+spanners http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...l-lock+spanner Best, Michael Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 25th May 2014 at 01:51 AM.

25th May 2014, 01:42 AM	#8
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Contemporay portraits of the Royal Electors of Saxony, Christian I and Christian II. m Attached Images

25th May 2014, 04:40 AM	#9
Tony PP Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 26	Wrench Hello, I have often found spanners(Wrench) looking very much like the one in the picture. These have been tied to old Victorian iron beds and used for doing up the corner posts. Cast iron construction and often crudely made.

25th May 2014, 07:04 AM	#10
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	So have I. These are primitively cast iron late 19th century Victorian/Historismus copies ... Your item may be such a copy as the edges seem suspiciously beveled, and the rust scars are not typical of wrought iron either. m Last edited by Matchlock; 25th May 2014 at 10:56 PM.

17th February 2013, 06:05 PM	#2
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	I'd say definately a wrench Lee. I have one the same (in the shed somewhere) apart from the handle on mine doesn't have the extra shaping near the 'socket'. I always assumed that it was early transport or agricultural related. Possibly an early 20thC horse-drawn cart/buggy wrench.

17th February 2013, 06:42 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	A wrench indeed ... a small one. In my corner of the world people used to have this type of spanners to operate water (and other) valves, to prevent abuse.

17th February 2013, 07:29 PM	#4
PClemente Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 42	Have we ruled out a wheelock spanner? I have seen some very detailed spanners, but also some more primitive examples similar in style to the piece shown.

17th February 2013, 10:14 PM	#6
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	I believe Fernando has it. I have a couple around here somewhere, and they were for water or gas taps. One is brass with very nicley turned handle. Wheellock spanners are much smaller in the square, as Atlantia said. Richard.