1796 PATTERN LIGHT CAVALRY OFFICER'S SWORD

Alexander · 28th March 2011, 04:13 PM

Dear friends. I HAVE A SWORD 1796 PATTERN LIGHT CAVALRY OFFICER'S. WHO CAN TELL MORE PRECISELY DATE OF MANUFACTURING OF THIS SWORD?
Respect, Alexander.

Jim McDougall · 28th March 2011, 11:33 PM

Wow! an extremely nice M1796 at that!!! This hilt seems very much like the higher end examples which were I believe produced by Prosser. I would need to dig out notes, but these were of course private purchase so never had the usual government acceptance stamps. Most of these seem to have been produced around 1810, and the hilt is similar to the rare 10th Hussars officers pattern in style but that type had a special escutcheon on the guard with the feathers for Prince of Wales.

Best regards,
Jim

Atlantia · 28th March 2011, 11:38 PM

Beautiful sword Alexander. Congratulations!

Alexander · 30th March 2011, 01:36 PM

Dear Jim. If probably send a photo 10th Hussars officers pattern. Respect, Alexander.

Carl M · 1st April 2011, 01:33 AM

That's a beautiful, rare example!

Jim McDougall · 1st April 2011, 03:37 AM

Here it is Alexander, from Robson revised "Swords of the British Army".
The 10th Hussar pattern as shown is extremely rare, and as explained by Robson as well as a number of other references, were specially designed for these officers. The distinct characteristics in the hilt such as the squared corner inset at the root of the knucklebow are of course much as seen on yours.
As these are known to have been produced by Prosser by special commission from the Prince of Wales, it well illustrates the status of this maker. Your sabre seems to reflect some of the earlier characteristics of these hilts.Prosser was probably already using the form when the design replacing the heater type shield ecusson with Prince of Wales feathers came about around 1807.

These are my opinions and I hope that Richard Dellar, who is the true authority on these British regulation rarities will see this and come in.

All best regards,
Jim

Ian Knight · 1st April 2011, 11:37 AM

Beautiful P1796 Alexander.

Ian

Jim McDougall · 1st April 2011, 12:04 PM

Alexander, I just wanted to reiterate that what I am saying about the 10th Hussar sabre is that the majority of these (which is around 27 of around 41 made) were made by Prosser. Since they carry certain distinct characteristics that are seen in your sabre I am suggesting that it might have been sort of a prototype for what became this custom design for the officers of the 10th Hussars and very well might have been made by Prosser prior to around 1807.

I do hope we might learn more about this sabres provenance as these are truly one of the most exciting patterns of the British cavalry sword, and are known to have remained in use longer than often believed. As far as the regulation patterns in the British army, this was officially the first pattern light cavalry sabre (despite the M1788 being well established ). It was superceded officially by the M1821 light cavalry sabre (M1822 for officers) but the M1796 retained its favor long afterwards, particularly in India and some of the other colonial regions as well as yeomanry units.

Ian, its great to see you! I had mentioned Richard in noting particular expertise in British regulation swords, and should have mentioned you as well.
You have always seemed to come up with amazing examples of the British cavalry patterns, and your posts through the years are full of outstanding reading on them.

All best regards,
Jim

Richard · 26th April 2011, 10:06 PM

Hello Jim and all, sorry to come late into this thread. Here are two swords both by Prosser which have pretty similar hilts. Both have etched blades rather than blue & gilt. The top sword bears the markings of the 16th Queen's Light Dragoons (XVI QLD) and is by Prosser Maker to the Prince Regent. That positively dates it between 1811 when the regency was declared and January 1816 when the 16LD were converted to Lancers. The second sword belonged to an officer of the 1st regiment of Bombay Light Cavalry. I date this around 1818 - 1827.

So Alexander, you have a 1796 light cavalry sword with a hilt in the style of Prosser which I would date about 1814-15. The blade decoration (from the little we can see) however does look distinctly un-British. Is there a GR cipher? or Royal Arms?

Hey Jim, how are you keeping?

Richard.

Richard · 26th April 2011, 10:13 PM

And Jim, here's a better photo of Lambton's sword

Jim McDougall · 27th April 2011, 12:54 AM

Hi Richard,
Thank you so much for coming in!!! and especially for sharing the photos of these fantastic swords, especially Lambtons.
All the very best,
Jim

28th March 2011, 04:13 PM	#1
Alexander Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Russia, Moscow. Posts: 48	1796 PATTERN LIGHT CAVALRY OFFICER'S SWORD Dear friends. I HAVE A SWORD 1796 PATTERN LIGHT CAVALRY OFFICER'S. WHO CAN TELL MORE PRECISELY DATE OF MANUFACTURING OF THIS SWORD? Respect, Alexander. Attached Images

28th March 2011, 11:33 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,946	Wow! an extremely nice M1796 at that!!! This hilt seems very much like the higher end examples which were I believe produced by Prosser. I would need to dig out notes, but these were of course private purchase so never had the usual government acceptance stamps. Most of these seem to have been produced around 1810, and the hilt is similar to the rare 10th Hussars officers pattern in style but that type had a special escutcheon on the guard with the feathers for Prince of Wales. Best regards, Jim Last edited by Jim McDougall; 29th March 2011 at 01:30 AM.

1st April 2011, 03:37 AM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,946	Here it is Alexander, from Robson revised "Swords of the British Army". The 10th Hussar pattern as shown is extremely rare, and as explained by Robson as well as a number of other references, were specially designed for these officers. The distinct characteristics in the hilt such as the squared corner inset at the root of the knucklebow are of course much as seen on yours. As these are known to have been produced by Prosser by special commission from the Prince of Wales, it well illustrates the status of this maker. Your sabre seems to reflect some of the earlier characteristics of these hilts.Prosser was probably already using the form when the design replacing the heater type shield ecusson with Prince of Wales feathers came about around 1807. These are my opinions and I hope that Richard Dellar, who is the true authority on these British regulation rarities will see this and come in. All best regards, Jim Attached Images Last edited by Jim McDougall; 1st April 2011 at 03:49 AM.

26th April 2011, 10:06 PM	#9
Richard Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Aquae Sulis, UK Posts: 46	Hello Jim and all, sorry to come late into this thread. Here are two swords both by Prosser which have pretty similar hilts. Both have etched blades rather than blue & gilt. The top sword bears the markings of the 16th Queen's Light Dragoons (XVI QLD) and is by Prosser Maker to the Prince Regent. That positively dates it between 1811 when the regency was declared and January 1816 when the 16LD were converted to Lancers. The second sword belonged to an officer of the 1st regiment of Bombay Light Cavalry. I date this around 1818 - 1827. So Alexander, you have a 1796 light cavalry sword with a hilt in the style of Prosser which I would date about 1814-15. The blade decoration (from the little we can see) however does look distinctly un-British. Is there a GR cipher? or Royal Arms? Hey Jim, how are you keeping? Richard. Attached Images

26th April 2011, 10:13 PM	#10
Richard Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Aquae Sulis, UK Posts: 46	And Jim, here's a better photo of Lambton's sword Attached Images

28th March 2011, 11:38 PM	#3
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Beautiful sword Alexander. Congratulations!

30th March 2011, 01:36 PM	#4
Alexander Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Russia, Moscow. Posts: 48	Dear Jim. If probably send a photo 10th Hussars officers pattern. Respect, Alexander.

1st April 2011, 01:33 AM	#5
Carl M Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 20	That's a beautiful, rare example!

1st April 2011, 11:37 AM	#7
Ian Knight Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: East Sussex, England. Posts: 103	Beautiful P1796 Alexander. Ian

1st April 2011, 12:04 PM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,946	Alexander, I just wanted to reiterate that what I am saying about the 10th Hussar sabre is that the majority of these (which is around 27 of around 41 made) were made by Prosser. Since they carry certain distinct characteristics that are seen in your sabre I am suggesting that it might have been sort of a prototype for what became this custom design for the officers of the 10th Hussars and very well might have been made by Prosser prior to around 1807. I do hope we might learn more about this sabres provenance as these are truly one of the most exciting patterns of the British cavalry sword, and are known to have remained in use longer than often believed. As far as the regulation patterns in the British army, this was officially the first pattern light cavalry sabre (despite the M1788 being well established ). It was superceded officially by the M1821 light cavalry sabre (M1822 for officers) but the M1796 retained its favor long afterwards, particularly in India and some of the other colonial regions as well as yeomanry units. Ian, its great to see you! I had mentioned Richard in noting particular expertise in British regulation swords, and should have mentioned you as well. You have always seemed to come up with amazing examples of the British cavalry patterns, and your posts through the years are full of outstanding reading on them. All best regards, Jim

27th April 2011, 12:54 AM	#11
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,946	Hi Richard, Thank you so much for coming in!!! and especially for sharing the photos of these fantastic swords, especially Lambtons. All the very best, Jim