Help in Identifying the age/origin of this barong

hattriq27 · 12th January 2011, 06:06 PM

I apologize in advance for the bad cell phone pics, I plan to take some better ones but once I tell the story of how I came across this you'll understand why I was in a hurry

So I stop by my Mom's house and she remembers she had "picked me up something" at a local flea market. She comes into the kitchen and says, "I know you like stuff like this and when I saw it I thought of you so I picked it up. Hope you like it. If not I only spent $2.00 on it."

I know it is a barong but based on some history the lady gave to my Mom about it I want to say Spanish American War era. I am afraid to put any chemicals on the metal wrap to see if it's aluminum or silver.

Any input would be appreciated. And now for the pic, it is next to a Kershaw Leek which is about 7" in length open. I didn't measure the blade yet but guess that it's about 15" long:

and some links to larger pics:

http://theplayershq.com/usn/blade_large.jpg
http://theplayershq.com/usn/hilt_side.jpg
http://theplayershq.com/usn/hilt_bottom.jpg
http://theplayershq.com/usn/top.jpg

Robert · 12th January 2011, 07:19 PM

Hello Hattriq27,
Looking at the pictures I would say that the fitting on the hilt is silver and it looks like your have a very nice warriors barong. To me looks to date to the first half of the 20th century maybe ever the first quarter. I wish I could find one like this for $2.00. A very nice addition to your collection. If you would please post the measurements, blade length, blade width and thickness and total length. Welcome to the forum.

Robert

laEspadaAncha · 12th January 2011, 07:19 PM

Your Kershaw Leek dates to the early 21st century, ca. 2007-2009, and comes from an obscure coastal hill people in the Northwest continental United States known as the "Tualas," a sub-tribe of the Or-e-gonians, who are centered around the village of Tualatin.

Oops... my bad... wrong knife.

Nice barung, and I hope your mom gets a nice bouquet of flowers this next Mother's Day.

Anyway, to me, based on the tarnish, the shank collar appears to be silver... I am looking forward for the opinions to come in regarding age (and I see with Robert's post they already are).

Welcome to the (New and Improved) forum BTW...

hattriq27 · 15th January 2011, 01:04 AM

The dimensions of this barong are:

Blade Length 15"
Blade Thickness 1/4"
Blade Width 2.5"
Hilt 6"
Metal Band on Hilt 3"

Any suggestions on a stand to display it? Never really had something this size with no sheath.

JeffS · 15th January 2011, 04:55 PM

This member was also asking advice on another forum (not ethnographic) on how to clean the blade of the active rust and white paint on tip. I'm sure he would benefit from some expert advise from here as he was advised not to touch it on the other forum.

David · 15th January 2011, 07:22 PM

Your Mom did well...

Robert · 15th January 2011, 07:48 PM

Hello Hattriq27,
After looking at the dimensions posted I'm starting to think that the second quarter of the 20th century is probably the right time frame for your barong.
There are a lot more knowledgeable members on the forum that can give you a more exact age for this item and hopefully they will answer your questions shortly. As far as displaying it there are threads on this subject that can be found using the search feature at the top of the page, just type in display.

Dizos,
Cleaning depends on where the knife, sword or dagger is from. On American pieces most collectors seem to prefer that only oiling and scrubbing with a coarse cloth the only method to be used in cleaning the blade. On Philippine pieces the removal of rust can be a little more aggressive especially if you are planning on etching the blade. There are post that are dedicated to this and can be found using the search function at the top of the page. The one that Ferguson posted in this thread is quite helpful http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=etching As far as the paint goes I use fingernail polish remover (because it is not really caustic like a lot of the commercial paint removers can be) and 0000 steel wool. I hope that this is of some help.

Robert

DaveS · 16th January 2011, 05:29 AM

Hattrig27: You have a nice barong that i think would date from early 1900s
to about 1930 at the latest. The punto is probably silver. I usually use wet
and dry sandpaper, starting at 180 and going up to 600. If you are really
ambitious you can go up to 1200. After degreasing blade with acetone i use
phosphoric acid,which is metal etch. I get it at Home Depot, and i use it right out of the bottle. It dosen't need to be diluted at all, at least that has
been my experence. It's best to do this in bright sunlight as it is a lot easier
to see the pattern develop. when you are through rinse the blade in hot
water and then use baking soda to nutralize the acid. Wash the blade again
in hot water, and then oil thoroughly. Hope this works for you.......Dave

Battara · 16th January 2011, 05:51 AM

I agree with DaveS, I would also put a date of about early 1900s. I also agree that the punto sleeve is silver. No need for a testing.

As far as tribe is concerned, I am leaning toward Samal based on the angle of the pommel head.

Regarding the etching, I would also suggest ferrous chloride diluted with distilled water. The blade does need to be cleaned first of rust and paint, then apply the etchant until a pattern appears (and darkened areas show), then apply baking soda to stop the etch.

hattriq27 · 18th January 2011, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dizos

This member was also asking advice on another forum (not ethnographic) on how to clean the blade of the active rust and white paint on tip. I'm sure he would benefit from some expert advise from here as he was advised not to touch it on the other forum.

yeah I decided not too touch it until I could get around to finding out the best approach. I figured a few more days of rust won't hurt it

hattriq27 · 18th January 2011, 10:58 PM

I see I have another weekend project ahead of me......and a lot of research. Thanks for the info all. Very helpful and informative!

Still not sure if I will put this in a box on the wall or on a shelf or table.

12th January 2011, 06:06 PM	#1
hattriq27 Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 4	Help in Identifying the age/origin of this barong I apologize in advance for the bad cell phone pics, I plan to take some better ones but once I tell the story of how I came across this you'll understand why I was in a hurry So I stop by my Mom's house and she remembers she had "picked me up something" at a local flea market. She comes into the kitchen and says, "I know you like stuff like this and when I saw it I thought of you so I picked it up. Hope you like it. If not I only spent $2.00 on it." I know it is a barong but based on some history the lady gave to my Mom about it I want to say Spanish American War era. I am afraid to put any chemicals on the metal wrap to see if it's aluminum or silver. Any input would be appreciated. And now for the pic, it is next to a Kershaw Leek which is about 7" in length open. I didn't measure the blade yet but guess that it's about 15" long: and some links to larger pics: http://theplayershq.com/usn/blade_large.jpg http://theplayershq.com/usn/hilt_side.jpg http://theplayershq.com/usn/hilt_bottom.jpg http://theplayershq.com/usn/top.jpg

15th January 2011, 07:48 PM	#7
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Hattriq27, After looking at the dimensions posted I'm starting to think that the second quarter of the 20th century is probably the right time frame for your barong. There are a lot more knowledgeable members on the forum that can give you a more exact age for this item and hopefully they will answer your questions shortly. As far as displaying it there are threads on this subject that can be found using the search feature at the top of the page, just type in display. Dizos, Cleaning depends on where the knife, sword or dagger is from. On American pieces most collectors seem to prefer that only oiling and scrubbing with a coarse cloth the only method to be used in cleaning the blade. On Philippine pieces the removal of rust can be a little more aggressive especially if you are planning on etching the blade. There are post that are dedicated to this and can be found using the search function at the top of the page. The one that Ferguson posted in this thread is quite helpful http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=etching As far as the paint goes I use fingernail polish remover (because it is not really caustic like a lot of the commercial paint removers can be) and 0000 steel wool. I hope that this is of some help. Robert Last edited by Robert Coleman; 15th January 2011 at 08:02 PM.

12th January 2011, 07:19 PM	#2
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Hattriq27, Looking at the pictures I would say that the fitting on the hilt is silver and it looks like your have a very nice warriors barong. To me looks to date to the first half of the 20th century maybe ever the first quarter. I wish I could find one like this for $2.00. A very nice addition to your collection. If you would please post the measurements, blade length, blade width and thickness and total length. Welcome to the forum. Robert

12th January 2011, 07:19 PM	#3
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Your Kershaw Leek dates to the early 21st century, ca. 2007-2009, and comes from an obscure coastal hill people in the Northwest continental United States known as the "Tualas," a sub-tribe of the Or-e-gonians, who are centered around the village of Tualatin. Oops... my bad... wrong knife. Nice barung, and I hope your mom gets a nice bouquet of flowers this next Mother's Day. Anyway, to me, based on the tarnish, the shank collar appears to be silver... I am looking forward for the opinions to come in regarding age (and I see with Robert's post they already are). Welcome to the (New and Improved) forum BTW...

15th January 2011, 01:04 AM	#4
hattriq27 Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 4	The dimensions of this barong are: Blade Length 15" Blade Thickness 1/4" Blade Width 2.5" Hilt 6" Metal Band on Hilt 3" Any suggestions on a stand to display it? Never really had something this size with no sheath.

15th January 2011, 04:55 PM	#5
JeffS Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 343	This member was also asking advice on another forum (not ethnographic) on how to clean the blade of the active rust and white paint on tip. I'm sure he would benefit from some expert advise from here as he was advised not to touch it on the other forum.

15th January 2011, 07:22 PM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	Your Mom did well...

16th January 2011, 05:29 AM	#8
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	Hattrig27: You have a nice barong that i think would date from early 1900s to about 1930 at the latest. The punto is probably silver. I usually use wet and dry sandpaper, starting at 180 and going up to 600. If you are really ambitious you can go up to 1200. After degreasing blade with acetone i use phosphoric acid,which is metal etch. I get it at Home Depot, and i use it right out of the bottle. It dosen't need to be diluted at all, at least that has been my experence. It's best to do this in bright sunlight as it is a lot easier to see the pattern develop. when you are through rinse the blade in hot water and then use baking soda to nutralize the acid. Wash the blade again in hot water, and then oil thoroughly. Hope this works for you.......Dave

16th January 2011, 05:51 AM	#9
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	I agree with DaveS, I would also put a date of about early 1900s. I also agree that the punto sleeve is silver. No need for a testing. As far as tribe is concerned, I am leaning toward Samal based on the angle of the pommel head. Regarding the etching, I would also suggest ferrous chloride diluted with distilled water. The blade does need to be cleaned first of rust and paint, then apply the etchant until a pattern appears (and darkened areas show), then apply baking soda to stop the etch.

18th January 2011, 10:58 PM	#11
hattriq27 Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 4	I see I have another weekend project ahead of me......and a lot of research. Thanks for the info all. Very helpful and informative! Still not sure if I will put this in a box on the wall or on a shelf or table.