Croco Kaskara

ericlaude · 13th October 2010, 10:49 PM

Hello,
I want to show you my new acquisition.I bought this kaskara to an old Legionary. He was in tchad in 1984 and he rescued a village.This Kaskara is a gift offered to the legionary by the chief of this village.
Its lenght 89 cm OVLL

Sajen · 14th October 2010, 12:18 AM

Eric,

first time that I see a sword swallowing crocodile!

But in real, a very unique Kaskara sheat! Congrats for this find!

Regards,

Detlef

Ron Anderson · 14th October 2010, 12:29 AM

Hi

I have seen this sort of hilt on African short swords quite different to this.

One was for sale on a well known ethnographic weapon site on the internet. I would have bought it but know i would have problems from customs importing it

Congratulations. A great acquisition.

eques · 14th October 2010, 02:49 AM

Wow...looks wicked.

Congrats on the new acquisition.

Nathaniel · 14th October 2010, 05:03 AM

Wicked!

laEspadaAncha · 14th October 2010, 06:48 AM

Ridiculously cool. And a nice history/story behind it's acquisition as well...

VANDOO · 14th October 2010, 05:18 PM

IS THE CROCODILE A MALE OR FEMALE? ? THE ANSWER IS ITS A MUMMY

I LIKE THESE ODD AND SOMEWHAT CREEPY ITEMS IT IS CERTIANLY WORTHY TO HANG ON THE WALL AT THE HOME OF THE ADAMS FAMILY OR AT THE MUNSTERS.

VERY APPROPRIATE FOR HALLOWEEN

Jim McDougall · 14th October 2010, 11:56 PM

Hi Eric,
This is probably one of the most unusual configurations of the crocodile themed weapons of Mahdist and post Mahdist Sudan I have seen. In my opinion these are most likely from southern Nilotic regions and Darfur, where the slaving commerce was prevalent in accord with trade routes. I have often thought this decoration was intended to induce fear in those who encountered the warrior or trader wearing the weapon. The crocodile in these areas was not only revered, but dreadfully feared, and these elements of the crocodile on weapons suggested power in the holder of the weapon.

Over many years I have attempted to discuss the relevance of the use of crocodile anatomy on weapons in these times, typically to have suggestions dismissed as 'fanciful' speculation , usually with suggestions that these were made to tantalize tourists etc. I disagree and have seen many provenanced examples that were indeed in use by Mahdist warriors as well as worn later with totemic values aligned with the crocodile material.

The kaskara itself, as noted, appears of Darfur type and the blade most likely of Hausa manufacture with typical fullering and dukari placement.

Nice acquisition Eric!!! definitely out of the ordinary.

All the best,
Jim

ariel · 15th October 2010, 11:52 AM

I am not a vegetarian, but for some reasons these croc scabbards are revolting.

Jim McDougall · 15th October 2010, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

I am not a vegetarian, but for some reasons these croc scabbards are revolting.

Kinda like alligator boots (seen often in these parts), and of course many types of leatherwork, our shoes are leather etc. I see your point though, and they do look pretty revolting/scary....as noted, that was the purpose. Many weapons were intended to present a bit of psychological edge, as well have seen in so many cases.
I've really never seen one quite this dramatic, and this one I'm pretty sure the wives wouldn't want around the house. From an ethnographic standpoint, an outstanding example. It seems that crocodiles were once mummified in Egypt/Sudan in ancient times as they were key in many of the deities I believe, cannot recall details offhand.

ericlaude · 15th October 2010, 06:26 PM

I agree Jim,In position of edged weapons collector , it is necessary to see the ethnographic side of our objects, because if we go farther to sensitivity, remind of us that the weapon which we collect served has break through, cut up and sometimes cut our congeneric up.Tradition of the ancient time did not take into account modern ecological ideas.

Jim McDougall · 16th October 2010, 05:28 AM

Thanks very much Eric. It is always good to keep an objective view in the study of weapons, as they reflect important perspective in learning and understanding more on those who used them.

Which leads me to a question I have tried to find out more about many times through the years, and may have some relation to these crocodile themed weapons. There seem to have been 'crocodile cults' which are mentioned in Briggs, regarding anthropological work done by Colin Turnbull, but nothing firther to explain where or what these were. There is mention of 'blades' so presumably swords were involved.
There were I believe secret societies in some of the tribes toward the west in the Congo and perhaps other regions which may have had to do with the crocodile totem, I know there were leopard themed groups.
In these groups there were elements of dress with leopard skins, some had armor made of pangolin shell (Benin I believe) .

Possibly some out there with deeper knowledge of African ethnography might have some information on these 'crocodile cults'?

All best regards,
Jim

13th October 2010, 10:49 PM	#1
ericlaude Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 187	Croco Kaskara Hello, I want to show you my new acquisition.I bought this kaskara to an old Legionary. He was in tchad in 1984 and he rescued a village.This Kaskara is a gift offered to the legionary by the chief of this village. Its lenght 89 cm OVLL Attached Images

14th October 2010, 12:18 AM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,766	Eric, first time that I see a sword swallowing crocodile! But in real, a very unique Kaskara sheat! Congrats for this find! Regards, Detlef

14th October 2010, 12:29 AM	#3
Ron Anderson Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 228	Hi I have seen this sort of hilt on African short swords quite different to this. One was for sale on a well known ethnographic weapon site on the internet. I would have bought it but know i would have problems from customs importing it Congratulations. A great acquisition.

14th October 2010, 02:49 AM	#4
eques Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 6	Wow...looks wicked. Congrats on the new acquisition.

14th October 2010, 05:03 AM	#5
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	Wicked!

14th October 2010, 06:48 AM	#6
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Ridiculously cool. And a nice history/story behind it's acquisition as well...

14th October 2010, 05:18 PM	#7
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	IS THE CROCODILE A MALE OR FEMALE? ? THE ANSWER IS ITS A MUMMY I LIKE THESE ODD AND SOMEWHAT CREEPY ITEMS IT IS CERTIANLY WORTHY TO HANG ON THE WALL AT THE HOME OF THE ADAMS FAMILY OR AT THE MUNSTERS. VERY APPROPRIATE FOR HALLOWEEN

14th October 2010, 11:56 PM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,941	Hi Eric, This is probably one of the most unusual configurations of the crocodile themed weapons of Mahdist and post Mahdist Sudan I have seen. In my opinion these are most likely from southern Nilotic regions and Darfur, where the slaving commerce was prevalent in accord with trade routes. I have often thought this decoration was intended to induce fear in those who encountered the warrior or trader wearing the weapon. The crocodile in these areas was not only revered, but dreadfully feared, and these elements of the crocodile on weapons suggested power in the holder of the weapon. Over many years I have attempted to discuss the relevance of the use of crocodile anatomy on weapons in these times, typically to have suggestions dismissed as 'fanciful' speculation , usually with suggestions that these were made to tantalize tourists etc. I disagree and have seen many provenanced examples that were indeed in use by Mahdist warriors as well as worn later with totemic values aligned with the crocodile material. The kaskara itself, as noted, appears of Darfur type and the blade most likely of Hausa manufacture with typical fullering and dukari placement. Nice acquisition Eric!!! definitely out of the ordinary. All the best, Jim

15th October 2010, 11:52 AM	#9
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I am not a vegetarian, but for some reasons these croc scabbards are revolting.

15th October 2010, 06:26 PM	#11
ericlaude Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 187	I agree Jim,In position of edged weapons collector , it is necessary to see the ethnographic side of our objects, because if we go farther to sensitivity, remind of us that the weapon which we collect served has break through, cut up and sometimes cut our congeneric up.Tradition of the ancient time did not take into account modern ecological ideas.

16th October 2010, 05:28 AM	#12
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,941	Thanks very much Eric. It is always good to keep an objective view in the study of weapons, as they reflect important perspective in learning and understanding more on those who used them. Which leads me to a question I have tried to find out more about many times through the years, and may have some relation to these crocodile themed weapons. There seem to have been 'crocodile cults' which are mentioned in Briggs, regarding anthropological work done by Colin Turnbull, but nothing firther to explain where or what these were. There is mention of 'blades' so presumably swords were involved. There were I believe secret societies in some of the tribes toward the west in the Congo and perhaps other regions which may have had to do with the crocodile totem, I know there were leopard themed groups. In these groups there were elements of dress with leopard skins, some had armor made of pangolin shell (Benin I believe) . Possibly some out there with deeper knowledge of African ethnography might have some information on these 'crocodile cults'? All best regards, Jim